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Oculus Spirit [98363]
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Told y'all this was coming. Doubt it passes Congress.
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Apr 23, 2024, 9:22 PM
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The only way you can tax the rich isn't through the income tax. The wealthiest Americans have little to no income. You will never get tax revenue over 18 to 20% od GDP with an income tax.
Of Course Congress has been enriching members for decades with insider trading and I doubt Congress would ever take the pay cut passing this would entail.
Very interesting though. First tax increase proposed in decades that isn't a platitude,that would have a huge impact. What I heard though was that top rate would apply to those with the most assets, not everyone. Still.... You're not taxing the wealthiest Americans with any flavor of an income tax.
https://www.atr.org/biden-calls-for-44-6-capital-gains-tax-rate-highest-capital-gains-tax-since-its-creation-in-1922/
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All-TigerNet [11783]
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Re: Told y'all this was coming. Doubt it passes Congress.
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Apr 24, 2024, 9:16 AM
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You can't be a socialist without other people's money. The problem is "other people's money" eventually runs out.
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110%er [9728]
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How much income do you have to have to be subject to the higher capital
Apr 24, 2024, 9:23 AM
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gains rate?
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Oculus Spirit [98363]
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The source for the information was slightly....biased.
Apr 24, 2024, 11:39 AM
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Tax capital income for high-income earners at ordinary rates..... Long-term capital gains and qualified dividends of taxpayers with taxable income of more than $1 million would be taxed at ordinary rates, with 37 percent generally being the highest rate (40.8 percent including the net investment income tax).20 The proposal would only apply to the extent that the taxpayer’s taxable income exceeds $1 million ($500,000 for married filing separately), indexed for inflation after 2024.21 The proposal would be effective for gains required to be recognized and for dividends received on or after the date of enactment.
Here is the "source", without spin from the link I posted.
https://home.treasury.gov/system/files/131/General-Explanations-FY2024.pdf
They're going after some of the serious loopholes, but it won't work. It hasn't worked in decades, and won't now. Congress has too many rich people to allow this change, party notwithstanding.
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All-TigerNet [11093]
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Taxation is theft.***
Apr 24, 2024, 10:16 AM
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Standout [316]
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So edgy!
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Apr 24, 2024, 10:50 AM
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All-In [34373]
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Is there a draft bill?
Apr 24, 2024, 10:59 AM
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Let's see what Congress even considers passing.
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Hall of Famer [24878]
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Re: Told y'all this was coming. Doubt it passes Congress.
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Apr 24, 2024, 11:14 AM
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Government gets half your gains from the sale of something you own? That's ridiculous.
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All-In [32347]
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Re: Told y'all this was coming. Doubt it passes Congress.
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Apr 24, 2024, 11:18 AM
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Someone needs to figure out how to extract wealth from billionaires. I honestly don’t think anyone needs or should have a billion dollars, let alone hundreds of billions in assets. F that. Do you have any concept of how much money a BILLION dollars is? Does that make me a commie?
But like everything else in this country, the burden will continue to fall on people who earn an income while the poor and the wealthy are excused from participating.
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Oculus Spirit [82126]
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Don't worry, people like saddis will protect those multi-billionaires!***
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Apr 24, 2024, 11:59 AM
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CU Guru [1101]
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Re: Told y'all this was coming. Doubt it passes Congress.
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Apr 24, 2024, 1:55 PM
[ in reply to Re: Told y'all this was coming. Doubt it passes Congress. ] |
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Someone needs to figure out how to extract wealth from billionaires. I honestly don’t think anyone needs or should have a billion dollars, let alone hundreds of billions in assets. F that. Do you have any concept of how much money a BILLION dollars is? Does that make me a commie?
But like everything else in this country, the burden will continue to fall on people who earn an income while the poor and the wealthy are excused from participating.
We agree, Bill Gates is evil
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Orange Blooded [3158]
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All-In [32090]
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US federal revenue was 4.44TT in 2023...
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Apr 24, 2024, 11:56 AM
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which was 16.5% of GDP, which is more or less within the modern historic range. Federal outlays were $6.02TT or 22.4% of GDP. Federal outlays in 2019 were $4.4TT. So up $1.6TT in 5 yrs.
We do NOT have a revenue problem. The solution to our budget deficits and national debt HAS to be on the spending side of the equation.
Also, I don't see how you can say "The only way you can tax the rich isn't through the income tax" given then tax burden distribution. Unless you're trying to make the case that the top 1% of earners aren't included in the most wealthy category.
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Oculus Spirit [98363]
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Take a look at the top marginal income tax rates over the decades since WW2
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Apr 24, 2024, 12:13 PM
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Then take a look at federal revenue over the same period, as a percentage of GDP. ALWAYS between 15-20%.
That's with a 90%+ top income tax rate, and a 25% top income tax rate. And everything in between. Doesn't matter.
The top 1% of INCOME earners in the us are NOT the top 1% of wealth holders in the US. Under Biden's plan, for example, Jeff Bezos, who has an annual income of around $200-300K, will be exempt from the higher capital gains tax rate. He can sell his stocks as he wishes at capital gains levels a plumber would pay.
What you will see is CEO salaries, and all kinds of "income" capped at $990,000 for everyone. A CEO makes $20 million a year in "compensation". That's not income. He's paid a "salary" of $900K a year, and gets a company car as a perk for $90K a year, for a total INCOME liability of $990K. The other $19,010,000.00 he is "compensated" is through stock options he is given. AND, he can then sell that stock whenever he wants to, at the same capital gains tax rate as a plumber who EARNS $100K a year as INCOME when he cashes in his 401K.
Another part of Biden's plan is to eliminate the "step-up" provision for estates and trusts. BUT, that has already been circumvented by good trust attorneys for several years now.
It's all a charade. STILL. I originally thought Biden's capital gains plan applied to people selling and taking capital gains who HAD ASSETS valued above a certain threshold. Nope, he's still using the income ruse.
Totally agree the only solution is to cut spending.
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All-In [32090]
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I get what you're saying on the taxation side...
Apr 25, 2024, 8:18 AM
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but I don't think the top marginal rates, without the context of the change in other tax law, specifically simplification of deductions, paints a fair picture. The effective rates didn't change that much when the marginal rate structure and deduction structure was changed.
I'm not sure I believe the top 1% of earners aren't the top 1% of wealth holders...of course not an exact match, but I would bet the each group is pretty similar. Of course capital gains are included in taxable income.
Frankly, I think a taxation system on wealth is absurd. In just about all cases, the funds used to build the wealth have already been taxed, which is one of the underlying principles of why cap gains are taxed at a lower rate than regular income. Of course, the economic stimulus impact of investment and the risk of investment are also big points.
Is it a one-time tax or a continuous tax? Is it based on present value? When the value decreases year-over-year, are refunds issued? And on and on. It's just a bad idea.
In my book, rich people are paying their fair share now and the rich not being taxed enough isn't what is causing our federal budget deficit problem. That argument is used for convenience to avoid having to take on the much more difficult task of reducing the scope and structure of the federal government. We need a real leader willing to present the situation with figures and facts and a plan and work to lead the changing of opinions rather than preying on fears and ignorance...on all side of the political spectrum.
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110%er [9250]
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Re: Told y'all this was coming. Doubt it passes Congress.
Apr 24, 2024, 1:03 PM
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the goal is 100% tax, no private ownership
the state will provide
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110%er [5741]
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Is your favorite singer John Lennon?
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Apr 24, 2024, 2:38 PM
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Imagine - no wars, no greed, and no possessions! What a great place.
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110%er [9250]
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Re: Is your favorite singer John Lennon?
Apr 24, 2024, 3:49 PM
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oh the surprised look on these liberals faces when they are dragged out of their home, throat cut, buried in their own back yard
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All-In [32347]
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Re: Is your favorite singer John Lennon?
Apr 24, 2024, 4:00 PM
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When can we expect this to happen
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110%er [9250]
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Re: Is your favorite singer John Lennon?
Apr 24, 2024, 8:04 PM
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but then it would not be a surprise lol
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All-In [32090]
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Is that a reference to some joke I don't get or do you need to be called out...
Apr 25, 2024, 8:20 AM
[ in reply to Re: Is your favorite singer John Lennon? ] |
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for being a provocative and threatening idiot?
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