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All-TigerNet [11070]
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Orange Blooded [3810]
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Re: Traitors
Apr 21, 2024, 10:06 AM
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Nice try. They were showing their support. That is all.
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110%er [5738]
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Re: Traitors
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Apr 21, 2024, 10:13 AM
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Orange Blooded [3810]
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Re: Traitors
Apr 21, 2024, 10:59 AM
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Nah. Just not an idiot.
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110%er [7409]
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Re: Traitors
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Apr 21, 2024, 10:36 AM
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The EU, USA, and NATO had a full 6 months to easily negotiate peace between Ukraine and Russia that would have resulted in more loss of territory to Ukraine than where the battle lines had been from Jan. 2023 through Dec. 2023.
Ukraine would have remained an independent country with the large majority of its pre-2022 territory. Ukraine would have also had at least some decent piece of their male / 20 - 35 year old demographic remaining from which Ukraine could start the recovery.
But the US Congress was greedy and didn’t then … and still doesn’t … give a rip about Ukraine other than as a corrupt country that is ‘open for business’ for our elected officials and selected bureaucrats to enrich themselves by being ‘partners’ in Ukraine’s industries, giving Ukraine old US weapons so that America’s defense industry has to make new weapons (at taxpayer expense or via inflationary spending) to enrich our defense contractors (and thus allow congress to hit the investment lottery via insider trading). Almost forgot … for America’s dumbest politicians, they simply use family members and family friends to blackmail Ukraine or solicit bribes from Ukraine via simple shell companies in exchange for US taxpayer paid ‘nation building’ disbursements.
The whole narrative that ‘Ukraine will be taken over by Putin’ is a specious trope that has been repeated endlessly by the Uniparty’s MSM propaganda apparatus. Much of America’s citizenry fails to recognize that the MSM is BS’ing them on behalf of Congress and the WH; thus, these duped citizens become Ukraine flag waving useful idiots.
Those flag wavers who know the truth, but will never admit it, are waving those flags anyways in hopes that the OBiden Handlers Admin will get their first foreign policy ‘success’ by prolonging the war until after the 2024 election.
My heavens. So much of America is populated by idiots. At least they are easy to identify. They waive Ukraine flags.
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CU Guru [1493]
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Re: Traitors
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Apr 21, 2024, 11:10 AM
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Well said.
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Orange Blooded [3810]
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Re: Traitors
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Apr 21, 2024, 11:27 AM
[ in reply to Re: Traitors ] |
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Maybe the most ignorant post in a long time on this board.
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All-In [25196]
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Why not try debating the points instead of petty attacks.***
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Apr 21, 2024, 11:37 AM
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Orange Blooded [3810]
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Re: Why not try debating the points instead of petty attacks.***
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Apr 21, 2024, 11:59 AM
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There is nothing to debate. He doesn't understand the basics of the situation. It's not a petty attack. It's too idiotic to debate. He doesn't understand Ukraine, NATO, and the support around the world and the enormous opposition to Putin. It was an idiotic post and completely unrealistic.
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All-In [25196]
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You're blind to the MIC/Intel lobbyists and their lust for war profiteering.***
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Apr 21, 2024, 12:03 PM
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Orange Blooded [3810]
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Re: You're blind to the MIC/Intel lobbyists and their lust for war profiteering.***
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Apr 21, 2024, 12:24 PM
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You're a conspiracy nut. There is very little you know about the basics. Your mind is warped and you don't live in reality. Those are facts. You're like that dude who burned himself to death, but no as extreme. Very confident, but delusional.
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All-In [25196]
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Name my 'conspiracies'... Back up your statement.***
Apr 22, 2024, 4:55 PM
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Oculus Spirit [81949]
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I guess my favorite is that "someone" is in charge of the government
Apr 22, 2024, 5:05 PM
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but you seem either incapable or unwilling to be able to spell out who it is.
Today, you are all in on thee whole "money laundering for Ukraine" stuff, but seem completely unable to explain exactly how that works.
Then there is the whole world trade center nonsense.
I'm sure there are more, but those are just the ones I recall.
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Oculus Spirit [81949]
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Legend [17559]
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All-In [25196]
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In his case, he articulated his points first... (and he was right).***
Apr 22, 2024, 4:57 PM
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Oculus Spirit [81949]
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110%er [7382]
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Ah yes,
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Apr 21, 2024, 12:11 PM
[ in reply to Re: Traitors ] |
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the tried and true "if we give him a little bit, he definitely won't want more" strategery. It also ignores that Ukraine is a sovereign nation and still could have made a deal.
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110%er [7409]
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Re: Ah yes,
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Apr 21, 2024, 3:55 PM
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History provides examples of how this works.
Note: Wars of ‘total victory’ or ‘absolute surrender’ are very scarce in world history. WW II is the only major conflict more in recent history when ‘total victory’ had been achieved.
Franco-Prussian War of 1870. Prussia (the country which unified various other Germanic regions into what formally became Germany) won the war, yet France remained as an independent world power. France ceded the territories of Alsace and Lorraine to Germany. France was mad about ceding Alsace Lorraine, but that was the price for peace. France survived and thrived. BTW, France had zero shot at ‘winning back’ Alsace Lorraine had they kept fighting. Pre-Germany Prussia did not have the power or will to both conquer -&- to permanently occupy France. But, had the fighting gone beyond 1871, then France would have ended up ceding much more territory than just Alsace Lorraine. (*). More fighting would have been worse for France than just losing Alsace Lorraine. France was smart enough … and independent enough … to make peace because that was the best outcome for France.
WW I. France (with mucho help from their allies) beat Germany. Germany ceded Alsace Lorraine back to France. The Allies forced Germany to cede a major hunk of the eastern part of Germany to become part of the newly formed country of Poland. Germany survived and thrived. Had Germany kept fighting, they would have lost more territory instead of winning back that which they ended up losing in the negotiated peace. (*). Germany was smart enough … and independent enough … to make peace because that was the best outcome for Germany.
First Iraq war when the USA won, Saddam Hussein was run out of Kuwait, but Iraq remained independent. Notice that Saddam Hussein didn’t attempt any more conquests.
Second Iraq war. The US goes after Iraq, kills S.Hussein and ‘wins’ the war. Total victory, right? All of Iraq was conquered, that means we won, right? Uhhhh, no. We coukdn't 'wun' the iccupation. Iran won that.
(*). The moral of this story? Most of the times, it is better to lose something (Ukraine) in a limited war … and better to win (Russia) something tangible in a limited war … than it is to lose everything in an 'existential' war (as, in effect, the USA did via 'total vuctory' in Iraq.
Here we return to Ukraine. Ukraine, when (not “if,” but “when”) the inevitable peace with Russia arrives, along with the territory that Ukraine has already lost in the war to Russia, then Ukraine will thrive again. If Ukraine’s was truly an independent nation as opposed to the proxy war state of USA dominated NATO, then Ukraine would have gladly ceded the part of Donbas region that they had already lost as opposed to keep on fighting until their blood ran out. If Ukraine’s blood runs out, then they will simply become a permanent vassal state of the USA dominated NATO. An independent Ukraine, on the other hand, would be grateful that NATO (I.e. American) military aid had allowed them to reach av(temporary) stalemate with Russia, and would recognize that it would still be an independent country with enough remaining valuable territory to continue to thrive.
History illiterate Americans deceive themselves with the WW II era ‘pump America up’ narrative that the good guys always win as long as they don’t give up. When the time comes that the US government sees it in the government’s best interests to promote a war or to keep a war going, out pops the ‘America will bring victory and peace’ to the victim’s of dictator (insert S.Hussein / Taliban / Putin / Ho Chi Min / etc) aggression. Americans, it is your patriotic duty to ‘save’ these victim countries and keep forking over taxpayer money to do it. That is, until being in a cannot-win-war becomes too embarrassing for the govt, at which time the ‘let’s go war’ loudspeakers go silent.
it is past due for Americans to shake themselves out of the faux patriotic / faux moralistic fantasy that only a binary outcome is on the table for a moral conclysiin to the Ukraine / Russia war. This steady diet of government propaganda is not good for America's .., or Ukraine's … health.
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Heisman Winner [112578]
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Re: Traitors
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Apr 21, 2024, 12:25 PM
[ in reply to Re: Traitors ] |
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There is no negotiating peace between Ukraine and Russina. Russia will take Ukraine at all costs, and Ukraine is not going let their sovereignty go easy. And it is Simple, Russia wants their oil, I guess it is a coincidence that they found natural Gas off the coast of Ukraine, and BP had to pull out when the Russians started their "exercises" along the border.
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110%er [7409]
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Re: Traitors
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Apr 21, 2024, 4:12 PM
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Wrong.
Russia is tired of the war. What Russia won’t do is to give up that part of the Donbas region that they currently possess. If Ukraine keeps fighting, then they’ll bleed out as far as fighting age men. Regardless of whatever new tactical weaponry that Ukraine gets from America / NATO.
(*). Bear in mind that the Uniparty war hawks are of one voice in their sales pitch to American taxpayers that ‘we are only sending old (translation, not the most modern / not state of the art) weapons) to Ukraine, which allows the USA to replenish OUR military with modern / yes state of the art weapons) -and- the tax money will put Americans to work while helping our defense contractors to make money, thereby helping the stock market.’
(*). What America is tacitly admitting here is that ‘saving Ukraine’ is NOT our primary objective for the Ukraine spending bill, and that preserving Ukrainian lives is somewhere down the list. (Giving Ukraine our old equipment with which to sustain their fight will lead to disproportionately higher Ukrainian casualties than if we were sending them our most modern equipment.)
(?). When will Americans wake up and (1) admit that our government is either fooling us -or-(2) that Americans who have a political agenda to contrive a political victory (‘success’ in a foreign policy initiative) for the OBiden Handlers Admin is their true primary objective?
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Orange Blooded [2205]
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No, the idiots are the Red Hats....
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Apr 21, 2024, 1:35 PM
[ in reply to Re: Traitors ] |
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who spout Putin-originated talking points in support of an ex-President who was in Putin's back pocket.
It's easy to spot. Whenever someone does the obligatory "Ukraine is corrupt" talking point, or that Putin doesn't want all of Ukraine, I know I'm dealing with a pro-Putinist.
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All-In [42739]
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A traitor to what?***
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Apr 21, 2024, 12:51 PM
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Orange Blooded [3810]
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Re: A traitor to what?***
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Apr 21, 2024, 1:22 PM
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To Trump, MAGA, Marjorie, and Russia.
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All-TigerNet [13415]
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So you guys now support states that secede?***
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Apr 21, 2024, 1:08 PM
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Orange Blooded [3810]
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Re: So you guys now support states that secede?***
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Apr 21, 2024, 1:23 PM
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Is that what you are going with? You're a genius.
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110%er [7382]
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All-TigerNet [13415]
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Who did they fight?***
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Apr 21, 2024, 1:34 PM
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110%er [7382]
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Bolsheviks mostly.***
Apr 21, 2024, 2:06 PM
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All-In [42739]
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Y'all sure do invent some pretty stupid nuggets of "logic"
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Apr 21, 2024, 1:41 PM
[ in reply to So you guys now support states that secede?*** ] |
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To hide the fact that you really want Ukraine to fall and it's people to be slaughtered because you admire Vladimir Putin and wish we had him for a dictator.
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CU Guru [1186]
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Orange Blooded [2205]
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Oh please....
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Apr 21, 2024, 1:31 PM
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You have to be an incredibly dim bulb to assign "traitor" to people who are showing solidarity with Ukraine, a struggling baby democracy that's fighting for its life against a fascist invasion.
Incredible how stupid right-wingers are on this.
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All-TigerNet [13415]
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Why did Brandon block Poland from giving MIGs to Ukraine?
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Apr 21, 2024, 1:38 PM
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Now you know why I oppose this. You are the fool.
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Orange Blooded [2205]
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Liar. You wouldnt support Ukraine regardless***
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Apr 21, 2024, 1:58 PM
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All-TigerNet [13415]
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Why did he block them? Is winning not the goal? ### are we doing then???***
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Apr 21, 2024, 2:01 PM
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Orange Blooded [2205]
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Even if he'd approved the MIG's, you still wouldn't support it....
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Apr 21, 2024, 2:12 PM
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Liar.
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All-TigerNet [13415]
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ANSWER THE QUESTION.***
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Apr 21, 2024, 2:13 PM
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Orange Blooded [2205]
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Quit lying, you little fasci. You know #### well you'd never support Ukraine...***
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Apr 21, 2024, 2:29 PM
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110%er [7409]
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Re: Quit lying, you little fasci. You know #### well you'd never support Ukraine...***
Apr 21, 2024, 4:18 PM
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Back it up.
Here is your great opportunity to prove that Keowee is speaking falsely as far as NATO warning Poland to not send MiGs to Ukraine.
Unfortunately for your attempted argument, each time that you make some response that is replete with ad hominem or deflections, your only accomplishment is to let everyone that Keowee speaks the truth … and destroys the tropes of the Ukraine flag wavers.
It’s go time, gosmitty.
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Orange Blooded [2205]
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Reading comprehension isn't your friend...
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Apr 21, 2024, 4:47 PM
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The lie that Keowee is telling is that Biden's "we won't let Poland give over the MIG's" is why he won't support funding Ukraine, which we all know is nonsense. Even if Biden had gone along with that, Keowee would still not support spending money in Ukraine. He's pretending that's the reason.
In another thread, he makes it sound like we can't "afford" to fund Ukraine, which is ########.
So yes, I'm calling him out on his lies.
As for Biden & the MIG's, he didn't want to hand them over because Ukraine wouldn't have been ready for them, and they'd likely have not contributed to the defense much at all. That can be debated. No one is saying that Biden has been perfect in this war. What can't be debated is that alot of people on the right are lying about the war and the reasons they don't support it.
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110%er [7409]
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Re: Reading comprehension isn't your friend...
Apr 21, 2024, 5:32 PM
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OK, let’s pretend that it isn’t Keowee that posted the MiGs stuff.
It was instead posted by a new poster.
What are the false part(s)?
The ‘Ukraine wouldn’t have been ready for the MiGs, they wouldn’t have made any difference anyways’ argument doesn’t fly. Shouldn’t Ukraine get to decide whether or not they’d take the MiGs. Why does OBiden Handlers Admin (OBHA) have the prerogative for making that decision for Ukraine?
If indeed the OBHA is widely believed to be wrong on the Poland / MiGs matter, then where are the faux pro-Ukraine members of Congress that have been / are still kindly, but also publicly, advising OBHA to rethink this and endorse Poland’s gift of MiGs to Ukraine?
(*). It is stuff like this that paints ‘hypocrites’ and ‘crony phony’ on the Uniparty crooks and their propagandist MSM.
Anyways, TU to you for admitting that the that OBHA hasn’t handled this matter perfectly. However, a bit stronger language would have helped your message to be perceived as more sincere.
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Orange Blooded [2205]
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First....
Apr 21, 2024, 9:32 PM
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OK, so you skipped right over the part where I explained what Keowee is lying about, probably because you know I'm right.
Second, some people agree and some disagree with Biden on the MIG's. But the MIG's won't mean much without all the other funding that has been desperately needed, and is finally being approved. This was slow-walked for 6 months, during a time when Ukraine went from being on the offensive and taking back land to a time when they ran low on ammo and started to lose again.
And the biggest risk that Ukraine has is the GOP going wobbly on this. It always was the biggest risk, and still remains the biggest risk. And if Trump is elected, you can just hand Ukraine over to Putin right then and there unless congressional GOP members grow a pair.
And in the future, please spare us the talk about Ukraine being "corrupt", or that we "can't afford" it, or that Putin won't take all of Ukraine if he can. Those are all lies, so stop it.
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Oculus Spirit [98324]
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Re: Traitors
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Apr 21, 2024, 4:32 PM
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All-In [25196]
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Good Photoshop of the Crime Shop.***
Apr 22, 2024, 5:17 PM
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All-In [34923]
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All-In [25196]
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~$9B for Israeli "defense" and ~$9B for Gaza relief. Minus $18B from US taxpayer
Apr 22, 2024, 5:21 PM
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Pay to blow it up...Pay to rebuild it. This is a PERFECT example of the MIC 'economy of graft'.
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110%er [9160]
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Re: Traitors
Apr 22, 2024, 8:27 AM
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smitty is toe up lol
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All-In [32072]
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Real question...In your mind is it at all possible that...
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Apr 22, 2024, 4:16 PM
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some members of Congress actually want to support Ukraine vs Russia and honestly believe it's in the US's best interest that Russia lose that war and/or deplete much of their resources fighting it?
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All-In [25196]
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So that's why Billary sold Russia the uranium...? Or is that why much of the EU
Apr 22, 2024, 5:29 PM
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is still buying their energy from Russia? Or maybe that's why Biden stopped licensing on LNG exports?
Somebody needs to take a comprehensive look at things.
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