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All-TigerNet [12603]
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My email to President Clements. Obviously, I signed my name
Jun 11, 2020, 11:11 AM
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Good Morning,
First, as a 1985 graduate and proud alumnus of Clemson, let me thank you for the wonderful job you are doing as our president. I have never seen a better fit for Clemson than you and your wife. The purpose of my email is to ask you to please strongly consider asking the board of trustees to change the names of the Calhoun Honors College and Tillman Hall. I have always been embarrassed by these names and am more mortified than ever at this time. The more I read about the ideology and comments of these individuals, the harder it is to believe that my university still considers association with these names appropriate in any capacity.
I am a white man and I feel that these names are hurtful to our African American students and alumni. Actually, I feel they are hurtful to the entire Clemson family. I truly believe Clemson is at a crossroads here that is long overdue. To stand pat and refuse to change these names sends a loud message to the world and potential future students. And it is not a message I think the university I love wants to be on record as having sent. The African American members of our Clemson and national family are hurting at this time, and our nation is hurting. This is the time to do something to help mend and move into a much brighter future. I hope Clemson does not miss this opportunity. The nation is watching, the world is watching, but more importantly the Clemson family and potentially great future members of the Clemson family are watching. Please do all that you can to influence the board to make these changes. Thank you for your time.
Sincerely,
XXXXXXXXXXXXX Class of '85
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CU Medallion [67944]
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And Good Morning to you too, Thirteen Echs.
Jun 11, 2020, 11:20 AM
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All-In [27446]
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Re: And Good Morning to you too, Thirteen Echs.
Jun 11, 2020, 11:56 AM
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I’ve never understood the reason why tnetters refuse to use their name,
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CU Medallion [67944]
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I do. In the old days, you only had to worry about crazies
Jun 11, 2020, 11:59 AM
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in your local neighborhood. With the advent of electronic media, you now have to worry about the entire WORLD full of crazies possibly showing up at your door. No need to make it easy for them.
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110%er [5443]
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Re: My email to President Clements. Obviously, I signed my name
Jun 11, 2020, 11:24 AM
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Oh look at me i'm white and i get it
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Orange Blooded [2951]
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Re: My email to President Clements. Obviously, I signed my name
Jun 11, 2020, 12:37 PM
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Don't you have anything better to do than go from topic to topic posting your silly and rude comments?
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All-In [34486]
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Probably not. One look at the guy's
Jun 11, 2020, 12:53 PM
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post history reveals he's pretty "troubled", and that's putting it nicely.
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110%er [5443]
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Re: Probably not. One look at the guy's
Jun 11, 2020, 1:32 PM
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Lol
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Orange Blooded [4985]
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Orange Blooded [3701]
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Good letter***
Jun 11, 2020, 11:27 AM
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All-In [26410]
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Re: Good letter***
Jun 11, 2020, 11:31 AM
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Yes, very good letter. I hope it is taken into consideration.
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Walk-On [118]
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Re: My email to President Clements. Obviously, I signed my name
Jun 11, 2020, 11:29 AM
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Thank you for doing this!
Message was edited by: tcihgiecragso®
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Orange Blooded [2951]
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Re: My email to President Clements. Obviously, I signed my name
Jun 11, 2020, 12:34 PM
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Why do folks assume that correcting 2 wrongs also means there will be others to follow?
Unless, of course, others should follow.
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110%er [5443]
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Re: My email to President Clements. Obviously, I signed my name
Jun 11, 2020, 1:33 PM
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Try and keep up it will never stop
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Legend [15926]
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Good reason not to start to try and do the right thing.***
Jun 11, 2020, 10:47 PM
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110%er [5443]
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Re: Good reason not to start to try and do the right thing.***
Jun 12, 2020, 7:57 AM
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What is the right thing
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Scout Team [194]
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Re: Good reason not to start to try and do the right thing.***
Jun 22, 2022, 5:35 AM
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In this instance, what is right is the action that will bring the greatest good to the greatest number of people. The issues the name Tillman Hall brings to our school and to the daily lives of many students far outweigh the benefits of keeping it. It’s not difficult to comprehend.
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Walk-On [118]
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110%er [5741]
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Orange Blooded [4331]
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Re: Exactly...the new Clemson map is this:
Jun 11, 2020, 2:15 PM
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The smug jackwads who think they are smart just because they have a Clemson diploma are some of the most ignorant and delusional people i have ever corresponded with...Close down the football program and these birds wouldn't care if the whole 100 acres burned to the ground...
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Walk-On [118]
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Re: Exactly...the new Clemson map is this:
Jun 11, 2020, 2:47 PM
[ in reply to Exactly...the new Clemson map is this: ] |
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This is true. And good. We should change the name of the university. I will gladly have them send me a diploma with a different name--a person who was not a slave owner.
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110%er [5443]
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Re: Exactly...the new Clemson map is this:
Jun 11, 2020, 10:55 PM
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Did you know this when you got your diploma ?? Are just now figured this out. Send it back and step foot on campus again
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Oculus Spirit [97185]
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Nice. Are you also planning to send this one?
Jun 11, 2020, 11:29 AM
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Oculus Spirit [82284]
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Re: Nice. Are you also planning to send this one?
Jun 11, 2020, 11:32 AM
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All-TigerNet [10800]
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All-In [32835]
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Legend [17701]
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Re: Nice. Are you also planning to send this one?
Jun 11, 2020, 12:44 PM
[ in reply to Nice. Are you also planning to send this one? ] |
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Just waiting to throw that out, were you? Come on, that was 6 years ago. Yeah it’s bad. The guy was having a bad day and posted something in anger that he shouldn’t have. I remember the post, but honestly cannot even remember what set him off. He apologized. Do we really need to throw that out every time someone doesn’t like one of his posts?
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Heisman Winner [105574]
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A bad day and posted something in anger? No, I do not
Jun 11, 2020, 12:51 PM
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accept that. We all have bad days and I won't speak for all of us, but I know I have posted things in anger. But what he said cannot be walked back. He asked for us to consider him separated and estranged from all things Clemson, and I will continue to honor his wishes. While I agree with the sentiment in his post in this thread, I personally do not consider him to be part of the Clemson community and no apology will change that in my mind. Hth
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Orange Blooded [4985]
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Re: A bad day and posted something in anger? No, I do not
Jun 11, 2020, 1:36 PM
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He had a meltdown because people on here suck since apparently some disagree with him on certain issues. Typical snowflake behavior when they leave their safe spaces. He'd rather take his ball and go home, so good riddance.
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All-In [32835]
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All-TigerNet [10822]
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Hahaha I had to +1 on this one***
Jun 11, 2020, 10:31 PM
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Orange Blooded [4985]
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Re: Nice. Are you also planning to send this one?
Jun 11, 2020, 1:33 PM
[ in reply to Re: Nice. Are you also planning to send this one? ] |
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So it's OK for some people to have their words from years ago held against them but its not ok to apply the same standard to others. What intellectual consistency!
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All-TigerNet [10822]
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Oh snap, I think my meter asploded***
Jun 11, 2020, 10:32 PM
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Orange Blooded [4985]
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Orange Blooded [4331]
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Varsity [201]
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Well done
Jun 11, 2020, 11:36 AM
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These are simple, practical, and appropriate actions to show the university's acknowledgment of past and present injustices within our society and its desire for a brighter, more inclusive future for the school and beyond. Our love for and pride in our school goes beyond athletics. We cannot undo what has been done in the past, but we can prove that we understand and abhor the pain caused, and demonstrate our commitment to not perpetuating those offenses.
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All-TigerNet [11424]
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Good on you 81to85 and good for Clemson.
Jun 11, 2020, 11:40 AM
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My letter to Pres. Clements looked much the same.
While, I know this board and the Lounge are often places to shid post, troll, and joke around, it's been sad to see so many, seriously, cling to old and painful ideas like they were a loved one going over a cliff. Not to discount actual constructive dialogue that has happened here, but the lack of empathy and even some hatred sticks out like a sore thumb.
Thanks for helping Clemson become a better place.
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Legend [19063]
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Its been sad to see but on the bright side....
Jun 11, 2020, 11:59 AM
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It's 100x better now then it was 10-20 years ago. More people on both sides of politics have been more thoughtful and meaningful in their dialogue. Its really what we need more of.
The name-calling here is childish though. I don't like it from our leaders and not certainly from anyone in the Clemson "family".
Please God brings sports back ASAP!
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110%er [9015]
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Are y’all sending these to the “president @ clemson”
1
Jun 11, 2020, 1:16 PM
[ in reply to Good on you 81to85 and good for Clemson. ] |
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email?
If so, Clements is not reading them. Sorry to burst your bubble.
He has another email address that he gives out to those he wants to hear from.
Yours was read - maybe - by an intern...or possibly a full-time secretary.
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All-In [32835]
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Read remotely. In her home. In Cowpens.***
Jun 11, 2020, 7:57 PM
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Legend [16667]
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I am neither "embarrassed" nor "mortified" over these names
Jun 11, 2020, 11:45 AM
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but changing them will not affect my relationship with my alma mater one iota. If it will positively affect the relationships of thousands of other alumni with the University, then maybe they should be changed. As I said in another thread yesterday, if I were granted the opportunity to change the name of any one place or (memorial or institution), anywhere in the world, because it offends me personally, I couldn't come up with one. That makes me very fortunate, but it also makes me unable to pretend to understand the feelings that many have about Tillman Hall and Calhoun Honors College. I will continue to love my University and ALL of its alumni regardless of what is decided, and I will trust the President and BOT to make the decision that is best for the University and all of its stakeholders.
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CU Guru [1906]
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Re: My email to President Clements. Obviously, I signed my name
Jun 11, 2020, 11:45 AM
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You do understand that the Board of Trustees does not have the power to change the name of any state owned property? Only the SC Legislature can do that by a 2/3 majority vote.
Message was edited by: Tiger Nana®
Message was edited by: Tiger Nana®
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CU Medallion [63566]
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Thank you!
Jun 11, 2020, 11:48 AM
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That is exactly what I was thinking.
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All-TigerNet [12603]
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Wrong:
Jun 11, 2020, 7:47 PM
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But on June 9, Vice President of University Relations Mark Land confirmed to The News the Honors College was not subject to the Heritage Act since there is no building named for it. The decision to rename the college rests solely on the board of trustees, the chair of which said he would not comment on the matter, according to Land.
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CU Guru [1906]
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Re: Wrong:
Jun 11, 2020, 9:25 PM
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I didn’t say anything about the Honors College. I said To rename property is not a function of the BOT.
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All-TigerNet [12603]
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True, but I was also talking about the Calhoun Honors, which
Jun 12, 2020, 1:04 AM
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can be changed by the BOT. I do see where you simply mentioned proberty, which makes your statement correct. And I will admit that I did not know that. However, my email was also about the Calhoun Honors College, which I do believe will be changed in a very short amount of time.
Thank you for your informative and civil contribution to this thread. Go Tigers!
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110%er [8292]
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Re: My email to President Clements. Obviously, I signed my name
Jun 11, 2020, 11:53 AM
[ in reply to Re: My email to President Clements. Obviously, I signed my name ] |
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They cant legally change the name but they can put up a plaque or stone marker in front describing why all the internal documents, maps, etc will refer going forward to the building as Main Building or Old Main Building. they can state that while they acknowledge Tillman's contribution to Clemson they can no longer overlook the other aspects of his life which are not consistent with the values of Clemson which are inclusiveness, respect and dignity for each and every student.
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CU Guru [1906]
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Re: My email to President Clements. Obviously, I signed my name
Jun 11, 2020, 12:06 PM
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That is not what OP suggested to President Clements or other posters have said concerning the BOT changing the name of Tillman Hall. I am not saying changing the name is a bad idea or a good one. I am simply stating that, changing the name is not within the powers of the BOT.
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CU Guru [1906]
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Re: My email to President Clements. Obviously, I signed my name
Jun 11, 2020, 12:06 PM
[ in reply to Re: My email to President Clements. Obviously, I signed my name ] |
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That is not what OP suggested to President Clements or other posters have said concerning the BOT changing the name of Tillman Hall. I am not saying changing the name is a bad idea or a good one. I am simply stating that, changing the name is not within the powers of the BOT.
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CU Guru [1906]
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110%er [9015]
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Orange Blooded [4331]
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All-TigerNet [12603]
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This is my understanding
Jun 11, 2020, 7:46 PM
[ in reply to Re: My email to President Clements. Obviously, I signed my name ] |
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But on June 9, Vice President of University Relations Mark Land confirmed to The News the Honors College was not subject to the Heritage Act since there is no building named for it. The decision to rename the college rests solely on the board of trustees, the chair of which said he would not comment on the matter, according to Land.
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Associate AD [845]
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Re: My email to President Clements. Obviously, I signed my name
Jun 11, 2020, 11:53 AM
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You forgot Strom Thurmond Institute??
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110%er [8292]
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Re: My email to President Clements. Obviously, I signed my name
Jun 11, 2020, 12:12 PM
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You forgot Strom Thurmond Institute??
Why Thurmond? Did he own slaves or lynch/kill a black person as a means to control or did he openly advocate for slavery? I know he was pro segregation but that is a much different animal.
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Orange Blooded [4331]
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Re: My email to President Clements. Obviously, I signed my name
Jun 11, 2020, 2:23 PM
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Golly, son...We are not in a time of rational discussion to come to a rational conclusion...
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110%er [7598]
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Re: My email to President Clements. Obviously, I signed my name
Jun 11, 2020, 12:01 PM
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And you really think that will satisfy them and they will all go happily on their merry little way......are you really that gullible or just plain stupid ......these people want to destroy this nation, take away our freedoms, do away with God, and then do away with YOU.....you are a white male ...and they hate your frigging guys.......they will not stop until you are extinct........GET REAL MAN .......Go Tigers!!!!!
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Heisman Winner [105574]
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Good Lord man, get a grip. You sound like all those pro
Jun 11, 2020, 12:16 PM
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segregation politicians from the mid 1900s.
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110%er [5741]
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Re: Good Lord man, get a grip. You sound like all those pro
Jun 11, 2020, 2:09 PM
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He's right. You're the one with the pathetic sheep-like, no think, opinion. Nothing the left is proposing now, NOTHING will do anything to help blacks out of their current situation. In fact, it will just get worse. Do none of you TU'ers understand cause-and-effect? Geez almighty - so sad so many people are so stupid. You are being played like a pawn.
If there is one fix to this situation, it is education. Until the black culture changes to promote kids starting in elementary school getting good grades, respecting teachers and authority, etc. NOTHING will change, except pathetic liberals will continue thinking the more we GIVE to the blacks the better they will be.
No, the more you give to blacks the better you will feel, because you think you are helping and you have white guilt to the max and little self-esteem and self confidence to know how the world works. You are PROMOTING dependence and excuse-making. Bull$hit - there are plenty of black conservatives that know what must be done, but you guys will never see them on MSNBC.
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Walk-On [118]
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Re: Good Lord man, get a grip. You sound like all those pro
Jun 11, 2020, 3:25 PM
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Heisman Winner [105574]
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All-In [48078]
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Re: My email to President Clements. Obviously, I signed my name
Jun 11, 2020, 12:01 PM
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Well stated.
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110%er [9015]
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“Sincerely, Joe Schmoe from 1985”
1
Jun 11, 2020, 1:03 PM
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I’m sure he’s been waiting to hear your opinion.
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Legend [18069]
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Bravo. Thank you 81to85. Well done!***
Jun 11, 2020, 1:55 PM
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Orange Blooded [4331]
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Re: Bravo. Thank you 81to85. Well done!***
Jun 11, 2020, 2:25 PM
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Road apples...
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All-In [44293]
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Good for you for making your voice heard.
Jun 11, 2020, 3:48 PM
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Your letter was very well-written.
Just out of curiosity, how do you feel about removing other buildings and monuments honoring people who were racists and/or owned slaves? For example, the Washington Monument, Jefferson Memorial, etc. Should we rename the Washington Monument and eliminate the Jefferson Memorial? Should these men be removed from currency? Should Washington, DC be renamed?
I would think that if black people are this offended over Tillman Hall and the Calhoun Honors College, they must be super offended when in Washington, DC or looking at our currency.
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110%er [7427]
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Let’s see if we can put this in terms you can understand...
Jun 11, 2020, 4:17 PM
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The black community has not had the built in advantages that others have had. - They do not have a history of wealth and privilege that many others in America - They have not had the best facilities to go to get a proper education - They have not had the support needed to be able to rise above the built-in disadvantages - In fact, the system was put in place to hold them back and allow the already privileged to continue compiling power and wealth
Change has to start on a small scale. You don’t just go right to Washington and change everything from the top down.
You start locally. Make some changes to laws and policies. Improve the educational facilities in historically poor neighborhoods. The change builds momentum and over time, things become more equal.
The LEAST we can do is change the name of some buildings that promote racists and bigots if it makes our black brothers and sisters feel more comfortable and empowered. You do realize that those were not the original names of either. They were changed in the 1900-40s when segregation was still king.
Stop hanging on to an archaic system that promoted hate and embrace change that promotes love and equality. The history will never be changed but it doesn’t need to be glorified.
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All-In [44293]
TigerPulse: 81%
Posts: 33125
Joined: 2/22/03
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First of all, no need to talk down to me or anyone else.
Jun 11, 2020, 10:15 PM
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At least pay something to support this site before you consider copping an attitude to others here.
Second, I fully understand the fact that black people in general face challenges white people typically don’t. I’ve seen people pulled over for DWB (driving while black) and I think it’s ridiculous.
Third, my post was asking a legitimate question - one that neither BLM nor any other self-proclaimed black spokesperson has seemed to address: what’s the goal here?
You’re crazy if you think that this is just a college campus issue. This is a movement filled with anger and rage, and I would personally like to know what the goal is. Is it to remove any building, college, monument, or statue associated with someone who was racist? What is the criteria for removal? It’s only fair to communicate the aim here since these decisions would affect a lot of people.
Finally, as I’ve said before, if black lives truly matter - and they certainly do - then the discussion around black people and their struggles/disadvantages need to extend beyond a building name or “white privilege” to include other (more significant) issues plaguing the black community. These are issues that don’t seem to impact other minority groups in the U.S. nearly as much if at all. Such as:
-Dysfunctional family structure (75% of black households don’t have a father present). How many Chinese, Japanese, Indian, etc. families do you see without a dad? -Low income. Again, lots of other minority groups have come to the U.S. since black people, many of whom were penniless when they arrived. Yet they sacrificed, worked hard, got an education, and have made great lives for their families. There is no reason black people can’t do the same. It’s obviously possible in America, because there are many successful black people who have made it. -Low education levels. The number of black students without a high school degree is staggering. If you blame that entirely on white people, you’re clueless. -High teen pregnancy rate. -High abortion rate. Roughly 250,000 black babies are aborted each year in our country. -High crime rate.
I’m not hearing any recognition of these issues within the BLM movement. If they are being discussed, they’ve done a horrible job bringing them up publicly. All I know about BLM is that they seem to pop up when a black man is killed by police (a truly sad event) during an election year (which seems like suspiciously coincidental timing).
I’m amazed at how many white people feel guilty about all of this. I’m all for empathy and self-analysis. There are surely white racists out there, as well as some bad cops who don’t treat black people fairly. But come on, anyone serious about improving black lives should be able to discuss the issues I laid out above.
Sadly, our society isn’t to that point yet. Black people don’t seem to be ready to discuss it, and white people aren’t allowed to bring it up for fear of being labeled racists who can’t see their own white privilege.
I’m a bottom line person who seeks solutions to problems. The Tillman Hall and the Calhoun Honors College names aren’t holding anyone back from bettering themselves.
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CU Guru [1664]
TigerPulse: 97%
Posts: 1835
Joined: 12/9/15
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Re: Let’s see if we can put this in terms you can understand...
Jun 12, 2020, 10:43 AM
[ in reply to Let’s see if we can put this in terms you can understand... ] |
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How about you start with an honest dialog. That would go a long way, there are plenty of issues to be tackled, today, in todays world, not the 200 year old world, not the 100 year old-world,not the 60 year old world. Todays world with todays issues.
God Virtue Family Education
Does not matter what station in life you started at, those are all in control of each individual to ensure they are the foundation of their lives. What the government needs to do is get out of the way and let individuals maximize their capabilities.
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All-In [40999]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 43007
Joined: 11/30/98
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yes, take down their monuments and take them off of
Jun 11, 2020, 8:02 PM
[ in reply to Good for you for making your voice heard. ] |
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the money. We could start by putting Clinton on the 3 dollar bill and Obama on the 1 dollar bill
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CU Guru [1664]
TigerPulse: 97%
Posts: 1835
Joined: 12/9/15
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Re: My email to President Clements. Obviously, I signed my name
Jun 12, 2020, 10:37 AM
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Well your letter must have put this over the top...the are going to change the name...can't wait to see what they change it to... and the color of your skin didn't really matter, thats called "virtue signaling" ... you could have just left that out and your point still would have been made. You sound petty, but the Pres must have like it.
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All-TigerNet [12603]
TigerPulse: 86%
Posts: 12264
Joined: 11/21/11
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The color of my skin was mentioned so
Jun 12, 2020, 12:14 PM
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He could see that Aftican American alums and students weren't the only ones that felt this way. Their feelings are the most important in this, but all ethnic and racial groups feel the time has come and I wanted him to know that. Virtue signaling is something I had never heard of until yesterday. Maybe it is common in your day to day vocabulary, for whatever reasons.
Thank you for the congrats on my email though.
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