Re: This.....is not great.

and I could have replied below where you used this term, but "cultural narcissism" is pretty derogatory, especially when you're doing precisely the same thing you're accusing me of doing. That is, assigning cultural beliefs wholesale to a regional ethnic population. In fairness, you did say that not ALL Palestinians hold these beliefs, but the vast majority of them do (I'm paraphrasing without going back and looking, so feel free to correct me if I'm off)--these beliefs being that Israel should not exist and everybody is fine with dying and kids becoming martyrs (which isn't a thing, kids don't die for causes) as long as it's in opposition to Israel and Jews.

So...how do you get to that statement?

The closest I could find in a quick search is a poll of 1,200 Palestinians conducted in 2021 in which 53% of them said they believed Hamas was best suited to lead the Palestinian state. That number has probably fluctuated up or down some in the past 2 years with all the moving parts in that region, but let's say it's a 10% margin of error. You're still talking about 400,000-6000 people who don't agree with or support Hamas. That's a far cry from the statements you made in that post.

https://www.npr.org/2023/10/12/1204881032/hamas-israel-attack-palestinians

Middle easterners in general and Palestinians in particular are very culturally different from Americans, we both agree on that. But believing that they are all ready to die because they value their families less than they despise Israel is....a thing. It's true for a lot of Palestinians, but I bet it's nowhere near ALL of that 53% of Palestinian Hamas supporters.

History is full of examples of relatively small, violent extremist groups in larger populations, and almost as full of propaganda that paints the larger population as exactly like the violent extremists. Our own government and media has done this on more than one occasion in the ME. Here's one of a number of examples:

https://x.com/zei_squirrel/status/1629494534546636800?s=20

I realize I'm in the minority here, and Israel is going to do what they do, but a LOT of this feels like bloodlust that is justified by a wave of the hand and a proclamation of "they're ALL Jew-haters who deserve to die".

RememberTheDanny

110%er [7409]

TigerPulse: 96%

Posts: 9937

Joined: 10/6/21

Israel allegedly was warned by Egypt ~ 5 days B4 the start

Oct 13, 2023, 8:18 PM [ in reply to Re: Quozzie, youre cherry-picking your theories ]

Been away from the non-football of TNet for the most part, so I’m behind on this one.

Has everyone heard that Egypt had allegedly informed Israel ~ 5 days before Hamas attacked of the pending attack?

As you had suggested, it is nearly inconceivable that Israel’s leadership (including Mossa) was completely unaware of the attack.

Israel is far far far more wired into Hamas than they were in the Egypt + Syria led Yom Kippur attack of 1973.

If getting past the emotion of this attack on Israel can be temporarily accomplished, then who actually benefits from the surprise attack?

(1). Netanyahu. After dealing with multiple scandals, he has cemented his status as ‘war daddy savior’ of Israel.
(2). Arms merchants (sellers and buyers). As chronicled in Rick Atkinson’s book ‘Guns at Last Light,’ about 25% of the USA’s war supporting goods delivered into France were stolen and sold on the black market. I think it was CBS News reported, for about 2 days before CBS ‘voluntarily decided’ to retract their newscast, only ~ 30% of USA war support goods to Ukraine actually make it to the soldiers. The rest are sold by higher-ups in the Ukrainian military, civilian support services, etc. In around about ways, US politicians benefit by getting campaign contributions and board seats from our arms manufacturers (Nikki Haley and Mike Rogers immediately come to mind).
(3). Religious fanatics. One can only imagine the recruiting bonanza for Muslim countries that support Gaza’s Palestinians when Israel finishes cracking down on the occupants of Gaza … regardless of whether or not the Israeli counterstroke kills hundreds of thousands, or kills a few thousand. The visual destruction and inevitable clips of dead Palestinian children, even if only a few, will be conflated to create the impression of hoards of them.
(4). Front running politicians (world wide) who fatuously express their solidarity with Israel, and therefore boost their image as ‘kind and caring’ leaders who should be re-elected for perpetuity.

OK, we don’t need reminding about the horror of this whole deal. There’s no question about this. However, we shouldn’t let the horror of the war close our minds to ulterior motives for those who appeared to be lax in their vigilance. If we have an interest in preventing future acts of violence, then we need to investigate whether ‘lax’ security led to a larger-than-otherwise conflict which actually benefitted selected politicians and/or well connected non-governmental entities.

flag link

military_tech

thumb_down

thumb_up

This.....is not great.

One could argue that the most humane thing for future

Deadline has been issued for all Gaza civilians

Sure, but 24 hours to evacuate a million+ people

I thought they had more than 24 hours and the whole

Re: I thought they had more than 24 hours and the whole

You're overthinking this one.

I* am just putting it into perspective

Re: I thought they had more than 24 hours and the whole

Re: I thought they had more than 24 hours and the whole

Re: I thought they had more than 24 hours and the whole

And it isn't 24 hrs...

It would depend on what you're measuring.

Bruh, they just have to get out of town.

OK, you're right, it's plenty of time.

Not sure if you're reading other threads, but like I said,

Alright, here's what I take umbrage with in this stance,

Gotta clarify what you said.

How bout we view in the context that Israel is warning the..

Its not registering with some of these people.

if they would just step

Re: if they would just step

Realities of war. Hamas should have

they did, and are getting their intended outcome

what do you propose Israel do here?***

Re: they did, and are getting their intended outcome

Re: they did, and are getting their intended outcome

Re: they did, and are getting their intended outcome

If they know Israel would go soft after these attacks

Re: If they know Israel would go soft after these attacks

I think Hamas knows good and well that

Gazas civilians have knowingly provided cover for Hamas and their terrorist policies for years.