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CU Guru [1950]
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I'm tired of reading about how our OL recruiting isn't good
Dec 18, 2013, 9:18 AM
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enough. Do people not realize that Rivals and Scout and all of the other services don't give out that many 4 and 5 rankings to offensive lineman? The ratings are slanted towards the skill players because that's what people like to see their team get...a talented QB or RB or WR.
For example, last year, Scout only gave out 29 four or five star ratings to Offensive Tackles coming out of high school, 14 four or five star ratings to Guards, and 2 four or five ratings for Centers. With the offensive line accounting for five starting positions, 45 total four or five star players means most teams aren't going to have starting lineups full of four and five star offensive lineman.
For comparison, here's a ratio of the # of four or five star players in the 2013 Scout HS class to the # of starting positions they account for per team.
QB: 35:1 RB: 41:1 FB: 2:1 WR: 44:2 (22:1) TE: 14:1 OT: 29:1 (14.5:1) OG: 14:2 (7:1) C: 2:1 DT: 32:2 (16:1) DE: 34:2 (17:1) OLB: 26:2 (13:1) MLB: 14:1 S: 30:2 (15:1) CB: 29:2 (14.5:1) K: 0:1 P: 0:1
As you can see, the star rankings are skewed towards the skill positions. QB, RB, and WR have the most four and five star players per starting position, while K, P, C and OG have the least. A player like Jay Guillermo, who was rated by Scout as the #6 Center in his class, would likely have been a 4-star prospect if he played nearly any other position. Last year we also signed the #4 OG in Tyrone Crowder. Thomas, Battle, and MacLain (although he switched positions from TE) were all 4-star coming out of HS as well, while Region, Destefano, and Reader (a DT now) were rated by Scout as top-20 at their OL positions.
Our OL recruiting is fine, and it's probably about as good as it can get. We're at the top for a number of the elite OL prospects in next year's class, so I don't understand the endless talk about us not caring about OL recruiting.
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CU Guru [1250]
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Two Things
Dec 18, 2013, 9:23 AM
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Check the star ratings of the OL of the elite teams and two, trust your eyes. All you have to do is observe our games to understand that, overall, our OL is lacking.
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CU Guru [1950]
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FSU (the elite team this year)
Dec 18, 2013, 9:34 AM
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LT: Cameron Erving- 3-Star LG: Josue Matias- 4-Star C: Bryan Stork- 3-Star RG: Tre Jackson- 3-Star RT: Bobby Hart- 5-Star
There are three 3-star players on FSU's starting offensive line.
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All-Pro [665]
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Apparently Creole can't respond to facts.***
Dec 18, 2013, 10:51 AM
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Enthusiast [139]
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1 senior 4 juniors and taking more than
Dec 18, 2013, 1:29 PM
[ in reply to FSU (the elite team this year) ] |
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we are this year . Plus already signed the top Juco , the whippings by Fsu will continue.
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All-TigerNet [13190]
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You ability to count is questionable
Dec 18, 2013, 1:37 PM
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Phillip Dunbar - RS SR Jacob Fahrenkrug - RS SR Bryan Stork - RS SR Johnathan Wallace - RS SR
Danny Adams - RS JR Austin Barron - JR Cam Erving - RS JR Bobby Hart - JR Tre Jackson - JR Sterling Lovelady - JR Josue Matias - JR
I'm counting 4 seniors and 7 juniors. You must be doing a different kind of math than I am.
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Enthusiast [139]
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Only one senior was a starter the rest were junior***
Dec 18, 2013, 1:39 PM
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All-TigerNet [13190]
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So?
Dec 18, 2013, 1:42 PM
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They still have to replace the other 3 seniors and the giant junior class of O-Linemen (I'm assuming all but the Juco will RS). They carried 17 O-Linemen this season, which is the exact number we carried, but don't let things like facts and numbers stand in your way.
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Enthusiast [139]
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the bowl they're playing in vs us is the
Dec 18, 2013, 1:46 PM
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only evidence I need that we are not doing a good enough job of managing our scholarships especially on the Oline.
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All-TigerNet [13190]
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In terms of recruiting
Dec 18, 2013, 1:48 PM
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We will start the same # of 4 and 5 star players on the line in our bowl game as they will.
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Enthusiast [139]
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You are 100% wrong about that.***
Dec 18, 2013, 1:53 PM
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All-TigerNet [13190]
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Really we start Thomas and Battle
Dec 18, 2013, 1:56 PM
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Both are 4* recruits. They will start Bobby Hart and Josue Matias, both 4* players.
According to my math 2=2.
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Enthusiast [139]
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What was Shatley? And Battle was a 2 star if I remember
Dec 18, 2013, 1:59 PM
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because of poor grades and moved to a 4 after prep school
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All-TigerNet [13190]
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Shatley was 3* DT
Dec 18, 2013, 2:00 PM
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Battle was a 4* recruit coming out of prep school. I'm confused about how that doesn't count.
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All-TigerNet [13190]
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They also start a 3* former D-Tackle in Tre Jackson
Dec 18, 2013, 2:02 PM
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FYI
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Enthusiast [139]
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Why must we continue converting TE and DT to fill
Dec 18, 2013, 2:09 PM
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in gaps ? Its because we don't tell them to beat it when they don't produce or we're not taking enough #s to truly fill the gaps. Lets quit looking for excuses and call it what it is . Poor planning, poor development , and poor coaching.
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All-TigerNet [13190]
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Because they make good OT and guards
Dec 18, 2013, 2:12 PM
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That might be a possibility.
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Enthusiast [139]
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How many make the league that come from our program?***
Dec 18, 2013, 2:32 PM
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All-TigerNet [13190]
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How many are on rosters this season?
Dec 18, 2013, 2:35 PM
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Thomas Austin Dalton Freeman Chris Hairston Antoine McClain
Of course, this is a different coaching staff than Tommy Bowden's. So if you want to look at recruiting, you're going to have to start with Dabo's linemen, which will start with Brandon Thomas in this draft.
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CU Guru [1950]
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Barry Richardson also played for the Lions this year...
Dec 18, 2013, 2:37 PM
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And has started 49 games in his career.
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Enthusiast [139]
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All-TigerNet [13190]
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Would you agree that Tommy Bowden and Dabo Swinney
Dec 18, 2013, 2:42 PM
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are not the same coaches. Therefore, if you start with Dabo's recruited linemen you will be starting with the 2009 class, and the first eligible player in that class is Brandon Thomas, who will be drafted.
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CU Guru [1950]
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We also had JK Jay in that class...
Dec 18, 2013, 2:44 PM
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A 4-Star OT as well. Simple bad luck due to injury kept him from being a very solid player for us.
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All-TigerNet [13190]
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Dabo's fault for injuring his back
Dec 18, 2013, 2:49 PM
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Should have been spotting him better.
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Enthusiast [139]
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Making the switch the third or fourth year is not a good
Dec 18, 2013, 2:36 PM
[ in reply to Because they make good OT and guards ] |
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indication of them being projected properly , it screams panic mode from the coaches and it shows in their performance.
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All-TigerNet [13190]
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Interesting
Dec 18, 2013, 2:40 PM
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I would say that needs change throughout a career. Shatley was moved because he could help the O-Line but was buried on the depth chart at DT. He moves and starts every game, and generally plays well. Mac Laine is moved because his frame fills out and he is simply to big to play TE anymore. So, you either keep him at TE, and allow him to sit on the bench, or you let him keep eating, move him to O-Line, and see if his 4* athleticism translates.
You do realize we are discussing 2 out of 17 players, one of which played extremely well for us the last 2 years.
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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it's a great indication of recruiting players that can help
Dec 18, 2013, 2:41 PM
[ in reply to Making the switch the third or fourth year is not a good ] |
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the program & themselves.
a lot of jumbo athletes are recruited for just that purpose.
you're going to offer up that as a knock on a program? that's just good football.
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Enthusiast [139]
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Eric McClain and Tyler Shatley weren't
Dec 18, 2013, 3:27 PM
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recruited as jumbo athelets , that's just an excuse for coaches that have to scramble to fill positions because they've failed at their jobs. Next you'll tell me Cannon Smith is a jumbo athlete and adding 50lbs , waiting till he's a redshirt junior to play right tackle is a good plan. Simply recruit more Olinemen and these things won't happen.
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All-TigerNet [13190]
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Once again
Dec 18, 2013, 3:31 PM
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Shatley played well, and Mac Lain had not future at TE, again 2 out of 17 players, one of whom was a 2 year starter. What exactly is your issue?
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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??? they are/were both big bodied with room to grow,
Dec 18, 2013, 3:49 PM
[ in reply to Eric McClain and Tyler Shatley weren't ] |
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football players first with base tools to play multiple positions. you can't get enough of those kids. not sure what your story on jumbo athletes is, but that's the one i've always heard and been around.
we play a spread offense, moving big bodies in from te to ot happens a lot & it's not symptomatic of clemson alone.
you don't like spread offenses or hunhs fine, but don't hate on the program because you want a bama offensive line that runs 60 plays a game when we're looking to run 90-100. it's not remotely the same.
and yes, if cannon smith projects as an ot in this system, it is a #### good thing.
if you want to ##### about spreads, i'll join in with you, but i'm not going to ##### because the coaches are doing a good job putting the pieces together to fit the systems they play.
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Oculus Spirit [97185]
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A lot of information in that post...
Dec 18, 2013, 3:53 PM
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could I get that on CD so I can listen on the way to work?
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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does your gf like football?
Dec 18, 2013, 3:58 PM
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maybe she can explain it to you?
i sowie.
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All-TigerNet [13190]
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Look if the middle school football coach decides your a DT
Dec 18, 2013, 3:53 PM
[ in reply to ??? they are/were both big bodied with room to grow, ] |
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You just have to go with it. Same with TE, if you play TE when you are 15 you must play TE when you are 20, thems the rules.
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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haha, werd.***
Dec 18, 2013, 3:57 PM
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Orange Blooded [4504]
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All-In [25282]
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Nice research and argument. Witches gonna' witch.... +1.***
Dec 18, 2013, 9:23 AM
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CU Guru [1950]
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Should have noted that Norton was also top-20 at his positio
Dec 18, 2013, 9:23 AM
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n
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CU Medallion [68893]
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Re: Should have noted that Norton was also top-20 at his positio
Dec 18, 2013, 9:28 AM
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and when he signed someone here (dont remember who) said we wasted a scholarship. just shows you never kinow
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CU Medallion [64841]
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I think it is fair to say that Clemson recruited Norton....
Dec 18, 2013, 9:43 AM
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based on his potential. In high school, Norton played for a terrible coach on a bunch of medicore (at best) teams.
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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that's really the rx for offensive lineman & most players.
Dec 18, 2013, 10:04 AM
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i'm guessing he performed well at camp too.
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Orange Blooded [3245]
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And as much as I'm sad to see him go
Dec 18, 2013, 9:29 AM
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Giff was a two star and probably should have been playing guard. Pretty sure even FSU's OL is a 3-4 star mix.
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CU Guru [1950]
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It's no secret the staff wanted Battle to take over the
Dec 18, 2013, 9:30 AM
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starting job all spring and summer. Unfortunately, he couldn't get his act together.
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CU Medallion [68893]
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Re: I'm tired of reading about how our OL recruiting isn't good
Dec 18, 2013, 9:33 AM
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I have a beef about our nembers. Lose 2 replace 2 according to all indications. now we are down another 2 to medicals. I'm hearing nothing about backfilling those spots. now the Giff situation is new but Destefano stopped playing months ago.
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CU Guru [1950]
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It only makes sense to change the plan if we can replace
Dec 18, 2013, 9:38 AM
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them with OL who are ready to go immediately. The staff has a plan in regards to how many to bring in each year, and the plan accounts for players that don't turn out. If we could bring in a JC player who could contribute immediately, then I'd say go for it, but bringing in a freshman who will have to RS doesn't affect next year's team.
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CU Medallion [68893]
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Re: It only makes sense to change the plan if we can replace
Dec 18, 2013, 9:42 AM
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you have to have th numbers though because we are losing one or two this year to medicals. I'd be happy if we'd ever develop a walk on again like Sharpe but we dont seem to. Yet Nebraska always can develop one for their OL.
JUst seems it isnt an area they give attention to which is one of the things that sunk Bowden
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CU Guru [1950]
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We will have 16 on scholarship next year...
Dec 18, 2013, 10:00 AM
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A typical team will have 14-18. The numbers are still there.
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All-TigerNet [13190]
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O-Line is a 5 year commitment of a a scholarship
Dec 18, 2013, 10:47 AM
[ in reply to Re: It only makes sense to change the plan if we can replace ] |
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We have wasted a few on reaches and we don't "cut" players. So, if you screw up, you're stuck with that mistake. Next seasons O-Line class will have at least 4-5 players, including (fingers crossed) Hyatt, one of the best in the nation. Recruiting through panic is never a good idea.
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Enthusiast [139]
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Hyatt is a 2015 I believe***
Dec 18, 2013, 1:42 PM
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All-TigerNet [13190]
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Which is why I said next seasons
Dec 18, 2013, 1:45 PM
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Should have been more specific, next recruiting class.
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Enthusiast [139]
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So how does he help? We already know it
Dec 18, 2013, 1:48 PM
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takes our staff at least 3 years to get production from an Olinemen.
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All-TigerNet [13190]
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Which is why Thomas has started 4 years
Dec 18, 2013, 1:49 PM
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Battle is starting as a sophomore. Beasley, Norton, Davis all played as Sophomores.
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Enthusiast [139]
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Thomas is a statistical anomaly for Clemson
Dec 18, 2013, 1:57 PM
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Battle started because Giff and Shaq absolutely stunk it up and the coaches didn't want to start him because he has been lazy in practice.
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All-TigerNet [13190]
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You are just not good with facts.
Dec 18, 2013, 1:59 PM
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Dalton Freeman was also a 4 year starter. Tyrone Crowder has a chance to be a 4 year starter. Giff Timothy started as a Sophomore.
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Enthusiast [139]
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Crowder is a redshirt, Giff was a redshirt
Dec 18, 2013, 2:04 PM
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and Freeman can't block a 0technique to save his life as a redshirt senior. Yes we may have numbers but we do not have quality Olinemen and that has and will continue to be a trend for this program .Tell me the last time you were truly satisfied with the performance of our offensive line. Be honest because I can't think of the last time our coaches were.
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All-TigerNet [13190]
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I'm sorry, they are still freshmen/sophomores
Dec 18, 2013, 2:13 PM
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Most O-Linemen redshirt. I was satisfied with our line this season. Last time I looked, our line didn't fumble against F.S.U. or South Carolina. We won all of the other games.
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Orange Blooded [2772]
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Tyrone Crowder.....
Dec 18, 2013, 9:48 AM
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Says hello!!!
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All-TigerNet [14921]
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Facts and statistics generally confuse the
Dec 18, 2013, 1:26 PM
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moron fringe on here; don't expect those to shut them up.
Nice work though!
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Addict [448]
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Re: I'm tired of reading about how our OL recruiting isn't good
Dec 18, 2013, 1:45 PM
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Well stop reading ...that should solve your dilemma
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Orange Blooded [3245]
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This guy is the best troll I've seen in a while
Dec 18, 2013, 2:22 PM
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I almost bought he was just another dissatisfied CU fan.
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Member [29]
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Re: I'm tired of reading about how our OL recruiting isn't good
Dec 18, 2013, 4:15 PM
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we arent very good at all. were recruitng the wrong kids. espn and rivals and all those services alot of times dont know nothing. and people are going to REALLY miss brandon thomas when hes gone hes was dominant this yr. saw where ppl wanted battle there he was no where near ready has all the talent but has yet 2 put it together. we need bigger meaner guys though. so recruiting services dont mean a #### thing. and our coaching isnt the best either IJS oh yea and region is 2 #### fat he was higly recruited hes a bum so dont want 2 hear nothing ab him. #DISSAPOINTMENT
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All-TigerNet [13190]
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Tried the post in google translate
Dec 18, 2013, 4:20 PM
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Couldn't figure out which language to go with.
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