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Oculus Spirit [94415]
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Age of accountability?
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Jan 3, 2024, 8:33 AM
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Deuteronomy 1:
"39 Moreover your little ones, which ye said should be a prey, and your children, which in that day had no knowledge between good and evil, they shall go in thither, and unto them will I give it, and they shall possess it."
Israel, when approaching Canaan Land, sent 12 men to scout. The report of 10 of those 12 came and caused the people to see overwhelming adversity. Keep in mind that they had been traveling since Egypt for about 4 years.
"28 Whither shall we go up? our brethren have discouraged our heart, saying, The people is greater and taller than we; the cities are great and walled up to heaven; and moreover we have seen the sons of the Anakims there."
To say the least, they did not please God. Typical of a man like me, they were, they worried. The children did not worry, they had no doubt(s). This is why I believe the unborn and small children who die go to heaven.
===========================================================================================================
On another note:
Matt 18:
"1 At the same time came the disciples unto Jesus, saying, Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?
2 And Jesus called a little child unto him, and set him in the midst of them,
3 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven."
A child doesn't say 'Do we have food.' He says 'I'm hungry.' Even a newborn can let you know he's hungry.
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Hall of Famer [24607]
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Interesting. I think I agree with you.
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Jan 3, 2024, 10:36 AM
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Thank you for the biblical foundation.
It is a concept similar to original sin in that there are more opinions about it than knowledge, because we are told only a little. The best I can word it for myself is that we might have all inherited it, but like an inheritance we all accepted it, the latter making it our responsibility. I suppose that by the Law that age was 12, which like all the Law was a representation of the underlying spiritual reality. What is the actual age of accountability? Probably is individual, and imo is later than we might think. As you say, a 5 year old can come to faith, but it takes more awareness for one's ego to rebel.
It was grace that cured my blindness, nothing else. I promise you, I wasn't worth the trouble. Faith was merely the decision that brought me to the presence of Grace. A 5 year old can do that.
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Oculus Spirit [94415]
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The curse, from my understanding is the condemnation of sin upon man.
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Jan 3, 2024, 10:59 AM
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Our natural man, the one we fight against daily, is our curse. Imagine this, Adam didn't have that lust in his heart to self will but walked with God.
I believe the difference in Adam when he walked with God as opposed to when he hid himself from God reveals much. Do we not hide our sins, and even from ourselves? It seems so complicated, something for preachers and bible scholars to understand which is hidden from us the simple minded, but is it not simple when examining the change in Adam?
We mimic Adam at the age of accountability. Who's to say when that happens in man? Certainly a little child can come to Christ, He said so and set their comprehension and humility as our example. BUT, does a 4 or 5 yr old really have sin other than a will to do as they please? They got that from Adam.
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Hall of Famer [24607]
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"Imagine this, Adam didn't have ..."
Jan 3, 2024, 10:00 PM
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Yes. Fun thing to think about. Yesterday someone asked me if God was upset at him because he is very tempted to go do a certain thing. Leaving aside the idea that whatever 'upset' God might feel was handled at the cross, I said that God might as well be very upset at me because I want to have sex with a whole bunch of women who are not my wife. ["Once you've seen one naked woman ... you want to see all of them." - Ron White]. We agreed that what God expects from me is faithfulness to MissTulsa, not because of the Law, which was nailed to the cross, but because of what the Law represents, His love for us represented by my love for her. No new theology in any of that, for sure.
But, that caused me to wonder if Adam had the same temptation before the fall. Did he not have that temptation, and did it come only after the fall? Was pre-fall the absence of temptation, except to "know good and evil"? If so, Jesus willingly subjected himself to the same fallenness we face: "He was tempted in every way." I don't even have an opinion on that, let along an answer. What you said about Adam could be exactly right.
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Oculus Spirit [94415]
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Re: "Imagine this, Adam didn't have ..."
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Jan 3, 2024, 10:13 PM
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I think your friend was trying to ask if God is mad at him for being tempted. No. No He isn't mad at those who aren't saved and He sure isn't mad at us. Mad is a human perversion of wrath. We don't often experience wrath. God hasn't yet, I don't believe.
He isn't mad at the lost because had He been He would not have taken on the body of man and suffered for our sin. Upset, nah, broken hearted? Most likely when both the lost and the saved sin. Anyone with a good parent or a misbehaving child knows exactly how God feels when we sin.
I knew a lady named Clem. That's not short for anything just the name given her at birth. She told me about her dad who after catching her doing something wrong never said a word. He retired to his bedroom, got down on his knees and asked God 'Where did I go wrong?'
She said it was the worst punishment she ever got and motivated her to behave.
Imo, the only real difference between the lost and the saved is that on judgement day we'll be sitting in much different waiting rooms.
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Orange Blooded [2242]
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Re: "Imagine this, Adam didn't have ..."
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Jan 4, 2024, 8:04 AM
[ in reply to "Imagine this, Adam didn't have ..." ] |
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Neither Adam nor Jesus had as much temptation in front of them as your average 5 year old today.
Think about your own example. You are tempted by other women…the only woman around Adam was the one god gave him and the women around Jesus were covered neck to ankle lol.
So when the Bible says he was tempted in every way we were that might have been true in the first century, but not in 2024.
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Oculus Spirit [94415]
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So hot women is your downfall?
Jan 4, 2024, 9:38 AM
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Welcome to the teen years.
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Orange Blooded [2242]
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Re: So hot women is your downfall?
Jan 4, 2024, 1:04 PM
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I was just using his example. We all have our "downfalls".
But are they really that? Why is lusting after a nice set of bewbs sinful and deserving of eternal torture in hell?
God made bewbs and he made me to like them. If anything it's his fault...
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Oculus Spirit [94415]
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I like em too.
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Jan 4, 2024, 1:26 PM
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I just try to not imagine hanging on em' though.
There's nothing wrong with being attracted to women. Nothing wrong with looking at them or wondering what their hopes and dreams are. It's when you think, 'Man, I'd like to jump them bones,' that issues develop which can eventually lead to a broken family and children who do not enjoy their parents as God and every normal person on earth wants.
A person can find a reason to leave their spouse if they've wanted to 'trade up,' very long. A guy fools around and comes across some younger woman who sparks his plug and his life can be destroyed.
What I never figured out is how a man can trust a woman who is willing to lay down beside a man that's married to another woman or visa versa. It makes no sense to me unless it simply having the The Big Dog's tail wagging The Big Dog.
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CU Guru [1186]
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Re: I like em too.
Jan 4, 2024, 2:35 PM
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So God makes bewbs, makes men ) who are attracted to said bewbs, then gets mad when they are attracted to the bewbs.
lol
or, hear me out, we are evolutionarily programmed to like bewbs. It makes way more sense.
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Orange Blooded [2242]
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Re: I like em too.
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Jan 4, 2024, 4:39 PM
[ in reply to I like em too. ] |
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You'll get no argument from me there.
But it's interesting...human beings are the only species that see it this way.
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Oculus Spirit [94415]
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CU Guru [1186]
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Re: An evolutionist would say that big ##### perpetuate the species.
Jan 4, 2024, 5:15 PM
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lol "evolutionist", you mean biologist? Are we "gravity-ists" and "round earthists" too?
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Oculus Spirit [94415]
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Re: An evolutionist would say that big ##### perpetuate the species.
Jan 4, 2024, 5:28 PM
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CU Guru [1186]
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Re: An evolutionist would say that big ##### perpetuate the species.
Jan 4, 2024, 6:33 PM
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I’m aware, it’s often used in the pejorative. It’s a dumb/unnecessary term.
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Oculus Spirit [94415]
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I'm pretty dumb.***
Jan 4, 2024, 8:54 PM
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CU Guru [1186]
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Re: I'm pretty dumb.***
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Jan 5, 2024, 2:59 PM
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Nah, just wrong. That's correctable.
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Oculus Spirit [94415]
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Best of luck fixing me.
Jan 5, 2024, 4:45 PM
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I know God better than you know your own father. I doubt there's much chance of convincing you that he isn't real.
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CU Guru [1186]
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Re: Best of luck fixing me.
Jan 5, 2024, 10:36 PM
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Well, that's not surprising. He was an absent alcoholic. But hey, at least he showed up once or twice to #### things up. So I know he exists.
I'm easy to convince. I saw my father, I know he exists. I have not seen God to my knowledge. So, if i'm keeping score, he seems more absent than my deadbeat dad! Hey, at least he doesn't actively disappoint me, so he's got that going for him.
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Orange Blooded [2242]
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Re: Best of luck fixing me.
Jan 6, 2024, 8:55 AM
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He left us a book though and he’s not gonna torture us for eternity if we choose the right religion…
What a guy.
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Orange Blooded [2242]
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Re: An evolutionist would say that big ##### perpetuate the species.
Jan 4, 2024, 6:29 PM
[ in reply to An evolutionist would say that big ##### perpetuate the species. ] |
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I don't think it's fair that male animals can get away with humping everything but I can only have one woman.
But on a serious note and genuine note, doesn't evolution better explain the difference between us as humans and every other species?
Why does god not care as much about them?
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CU Guru [1186]
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Re: An evolutionist would say that big ##### perpetuate the species.
Jan 4, 2024, 6:34 PM
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Well only if you care about evidence
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Orange Blooded [2242]
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Re: An evolutionist would say that big ##### perpetuate the species.
Jan 4, 2024, 8:43 PM
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Ask him this one: Why do males have #######?
The funniest one I've heard is that they are erogenous...
Look at their answer:
https://answersingenesis.org/human-body/vestigial-organs/why-do-men-have-nipples/
"It should be noted that male ####### are not useless, as has been suggested. They are very sensitive and are a source of sexual stimulation."
Is this really their answer to why a male dog would have them?
Then this Gem: "Male ####### are not a vestige of evolution but are instead a vestige of embryology. They in no way diminish the abilities of the creator God, but are actually another example of His wisdom. ####### in males are actually an evidence of “design economy.”"
" It is, in fact, the evolutionists who have a problem with this issue, as they can provide no reason for the existence and persistence of male ####### in an evolutionary scenario."
They say "evolutionists" have a problem with the issue (lol, they don't) and that they can't offer an explanation all the while using an explanation that sounds an awful lot like the ones "evolutionists" are claiming.
what the actual f.
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Orange Blooded [3150]
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Re: An evolutionist would say that big ##### perpetuate the species.
Jan 5, 2024, 7:39 AM
[ in reply to Re: An evolutionist would say that big ##### perpetuate the species. ] |
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Do you really have the same primal instincts as animals? I don't know you but I'd wager you wouldn't reproduce with your siblings, parents, or offspring. I'd also bet the reason you avoid that isn't because of some social convention that has been foisted upon you. Rather, you're created differently.
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Orange Blooded [2242]
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Re: An evolutionist would say that big ##### perpetuate the species.
Jan 5, 2024, 8:34 AM
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Well that’s exactly what the first humans did and we were still doing not too long ago. Heck I’m sure there are even parts of this country where cousins marry.
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Orange Blooded [3150]
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Re: An evolutionist would say that big ##### perpetuate the species.
Jan 5, 2024, 8:38 AM
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So.......you think it's okay? I thought this would be an easy one for you and I to agree on. lol
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Orange Blooded [2242]
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Re: An evolutionist would say that big ##### perpetuate the species.
Jan 5, 2024, 8:44 AM
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What do you mean by "ok"? Morally or genetically?
Either way, in the creation model, the first humans had to be guilty of incest no?
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CU Guru [1186]
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lmao, boom.
Jan 5, 2024, 8:47 AM
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roasted.
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Orange Blooded [3150]
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CU Guru [1186]
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Re: An evolutionist would say that big ##### perpetuate the species.
Jan 5, 2024, 2:04 PM
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Wait what is your argument precisely here. I think you are confused
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Orange Blooded [2242]
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Re: An evolutionist would say that big ##### perpetuate the species.
Jan 5, 2024, 2:47 PM
[ in reply to Re: An evolutionist would say that big ##### perpetuate the species. ] |
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To be clear AFDAWG® I'm not trying to win an argument here, just bouncing my thoughts around.
I'm just trying to figure out where you're coming from when you say "wrong".
Genetically it had to happen in the beginning if we all descended from Adam and Eve.
If it is wrong morally, why did god create animals to behave in that way, and why was he ok with the first humans reproducing that way?
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Oculus Spirit [94415]
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Adam's DNA was perfect.
Jan 5, 2024, 2:48 PM
[ in reply to Re: An evolutionist would say that big ##### perpetuate the species. ] |
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Our DNA is corrupted making humans perversions of what Adam was. As man's DNA degraded by the simple scientific law of thermodynamics, entropy, we grew prone to birth defects. As man observed that children of siblings were more prone to birth defects than those who were not unions within families became taboo.
Such is the price of sin.
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CU Guru [1186]
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Re: Adam's DNA was perfect.
Jan 5, 2024, 2:59 PM
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>Adam's DNA was perfect. Our DNA is corrupted making humans perversions of what Adam was
I know the answer but... can you back this up? What is your evidence for this?
>As man observed that children of siblings were more prone to birth defects than those who were not unions within families became taboo.
Wait, I thought God purposely created each of us.
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Oculus Spirit [94415]
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Woah, you went all proud when TBD brought up the creation story...
Jan 5, 2024, 3:24 PM
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proved that early man did their sisters and now that that's be explained away you're asking me for proof?
I'm your proof. No one puts up with your tomfoolery like me. 
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CU Guru [1186]
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Re: Woah, you went all proud when TBD brought up the creation story...
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Jan 5, 2024, 4:35 PM
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What is going on in this thread? Do you guys not realize that it's your story that requires incest?
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Oculus Spirit [94415]
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Re: Woah, you went all proud when TBD brought up the creation story...
Jan 5, 2024, 4:49 PM
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What's so strange to you. All the OT patriarchs married within the family. Even as recently as the last few hundred years Bitt royalty married within the family. Don't get me started on Egyptians, Romans and their belief that their gods were doing not only sisters but daughters too.
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CU Guru [1186]
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Re: Woah, you went all proud when TBD brought up the creation story...
Jan 5, 2024, 10:37 PM
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The strange part is why you guys are using this argument against evolution... it seems to hurt your own position.
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CU Guru [1186]
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Re: An evolutionist would say that big ##### perpetuate the species.
Jan 5, 2024, 8:47 AM
[ in reply to Re: An evolutionist would say that big ##### perpetuate the species. ] |
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Are you kidding me? Your argument was blown up, and you think you got him?
You tried to use it as an argument that humans don't do it but animals do as a data point against evolution, and it failed spectacularly.
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CU Guru [1186]
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Re: An evolutionist would say that big ##### perpetuate the species.
Jan 5, 2024, 8:44 AM
[ in reply to Re: An evolutionist would say that big ##### perpetuate the species. ] |
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>Do you really have the same primal instincts as animals?
We ARE animals. We are the human animal, a species of primate. And yes, we share several primal instincts with OTHER animals. What do you think the instinct to survive, reproduce, eat, protect your kids are?
>I don't know you but I'd wager you wouldn't reproduce with your siblings, parents, or offspring.
I sure wouldn't. Are you saying that humans don't do that though? Sadly... they do. Also, most other animals don't do that either. Again, not seeing your point there.
>Rather, you're created differently.
Then why does all the physical evidence say otherwise? The fossil and dna record (independently I might add) unequivocally show common ancestry and evolution over time.
If the biblical account were true, we would see everything appear at the same time in current form just a few thousand years ago. Why don't we?
Why don't we see any evidence of a world wide flood?
Why is the only evidence for anything supernatural, just claims in the books of the Bible?
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Oculus Spirit [94415]
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God did not breathe the breath of life into animals.
Jan 4, 2024, 9:01 PM
[ in reply to Re: An evolutionist would say that big ##### perpetuate the species. ] |
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That's the main difference between man and animal.
I really don't know what evolution explains but there is no evidence showing that man became what we are via evolution. We violate every natural economic principle with our love, hate, pride, honor...
A man will work his butt off to provide for his children and even do so long after they are old enough to care for themselves, love. People will bring harm to themselves to bring harm to others. We trash our lives with pride and give our lives for honor.
I can't imagine how some of our ways and means evolved from animals.
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CU Guru [1186]
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Re: God did not breathe the breath of life into animals.
Jan 4, 2024, 9:24 PM
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>That's the main difference between man and animal.
Humans ARE animals. We ARE the primate species APE.
> I really don't know what evolution explains but there is no evidence showing that man became what we are via evolution.
You really have no idea do you? I mean besides the fossils, DNA/Genetics, Anatomy, Biogeography, and direct observation you're right, no evidence lol.
> We violate every natural economic principle with our love, hate, pride, honor...
What does this even mean?
>A man will work his butt off to provide for his children and even do so long after they are old enough to care for themselves, love.
Other animals do this.
>People will bring harm to themselves to bring harm to others
Other animals do this
>We trash our lives with pride and give our lives for honor.
Sure, a pretty unique human thing (other species of humans probably included), how does this preclude evolution exactly?
>I can't imagine how some of our ways and means evolved from animals.
Obviously. I mean, you think that we were created and then get punished for acting like we were created, so not very suprising.
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CU Guru [1186]
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Re: Age of accountability?
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Jan 4, 2024, 8:15 AM
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>This is why I believe the unborn and small children who die go to heaven.
Whew, glad we got that one out of the way.
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Oculus Spirit [94415]
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Re: Age of accountability?
Jan 4, 2024, 9:37 AM
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lol, I love you, man.
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