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Ryan Update 8-12
Mondays are the only day of the week where I don’t see Ryan so I have to get all of the information from those that are there. By all accounts, Ryan had another great day yesterday. He continues to get better in almost every aspect of his recovery. He continues to crack us up as his sense of humor came back even stronger.

He has a busy day today as they fit him for his wheel chair that we will take home. It is a temporary deal until they build his new chair. In my mind that will be a temporary chair as well because I know Ryan will walk again. He can walk now with only one person assisting him. Balance is his main issue. He bares all of his weight and makes all of his steps now but he needs some help with balance.

Because his status improves every day, I have held off on making firm plans for the football season. I am not sure if he will sit in the handicapped section for a few games or if Ryan can be helped to a regular seat. I am a little concerned about the heat for the September games because Ryan’s stamina is still an issue. He has to work so hard to do the little things that it just wears him out. I am hoping he can make it through a whole day of tailgating and the games too. I think by November he will be able to fly so soon we will book flights to Boston.

Ryan is ready to come home. He can see the finish line and home just feels so much better than the hospital to him.

Just a quick reminder, we would love to see you this Saturday for Ryan’s birthday drop-in. We will be at Valley Walk and The Park at Valley Walk from 4-7 PM. No gifts please but we would love to see you and thank you for your kindness. We are also so proud of Ryan that we want to make Saturday a special occasion.

Bowden
It is easy to get our priorities out of order in our world today. We seem to live for the moment and many of us get too high when things are going well and too low when they are not. Our economy is great example of that since we based so much upon speculation. We get fat when times are good and panic at any sign of negative news and it is easy to find negative news.

This summer changed some of that for me. When Ryan had his accident on June 2, my life changed and will never be the same. I think I look at things differently now. My perspective has certainly changed and my priorities have been re-ordered. Maybe they are not any better or any worse but they are different.

A prime example of this showed up again this past Saturday. On the radio and on the blog it is part of my job to analyze the entire football program at Clemson and praise or criticize when necessary. But the criticism or praise is strictly from a professional standpoint because from a personal standpoint I see things from a different perspective now.

Saturday morning at 8:08 my cell phone rang and it was Coach Bowden. Tommy called to check on Ryan as he was on his way over to the stadium for his team’s first scrimmage which was to start at 10:30.

I was not going to write about this subject because I thought it was a private conversation and Tommy did not call for publicity. But I read a post on a website criticizing his values because of the DeAndre McDaniel case. The post was obviously not from a Clemson fan and it was not on a Clemson website. But I think it is appropriate to defend his character. The poster has no idea who Bowden is and who he was making statements about.

This phone conversation marked the fifth time Tommy has called about Ryan. It was one of maybe 40-50 phone calls, e-mails, text messages or cards and letters we have received from him or his staff about Ryan. They started reaching out the day of the accident and they have not stopped. The coaches and their families have been terrific to Ryan and his entire family.

Coach Bowden called Saturday to see where Ryan was in his rehab. He wanted to know his improvements and he inquired about the biggest obstacles still in front of Ryan. The conversation turned to God’s work in our lives and the miracles he works. Tommy invited Ryan to Saturday’s scrimmage and I only wish he could have seen Ryan’s face when I told him about the call and the invitation.

The point of this blog is fairness. It is OK to use facts in praise or criticism of a football coach and a football staff. These are grown men who get compensated well for the work they do. They understand the pressure and criticism. They have no problem with criticism when it is fair or deserved. These men are accountable for their performance and SHOULD be held accountable. Clemson football is a big deal and we should not lose sight of that.

When the offense does not perform well then Bowden, Rob Spence, Brad Scott, Dabo Swinney, Billy Napier and Andre Powell know their jobs are on the line. When the defense underachieves Bowden, Vic Koenning, David Blackwell, Ron West and Chris Rumph understand the consequences.

However, I don’t think it is fair to question their character. Sometimes wins and losses or Gamecocks and Tigers are not the way we should define people.

I don’t know McDaniel. I don’t know the victim. I don’t know what happened that night. I would not stand for either side.

However, I do know Bowden well enough to know he will do the right thing in his mind. He will not make the decision based upon wins or losses. He will not make the decision based upon his own personal loss or gain. He will not make a decision based upon what fans or media think.

I think I know Bowden enough to know that he will gather all of the facts he can and talk to as many as he can. At the point where feels comfortable that he has all of the information he needs, Bowden will sit down and make a fair decision. He has been consistent and has consistently leaned on the stricter side of the scale.

When he makes that decision then it will become the right one. Whether McDaniel is kicked off of the team or if he does not receive any punishment, I will be comfortable with Bowden’s decision.

The Brad Hughes All-State Insurance Agency

Comments:

Wow, so now we have put Bowden on the same level as the Pope. Infallibility. At least get us one double digit win season and/or one conference championship before we get that to that level.

At some schools you need a national championship before becoming infallible. That didn't even work for Ford.

I really like Bowden as a person, but we have got to get over this personality issue and start judging coaches on merrit. Hatfield and West were both bad hires from the start, Bowden had the record at Tulane to warrant a chance in the big time. But I still want an answer to what the plan is. 10 years, 12 years, 15 years, when do we need actual field results? Evidently not year 10 because we have been as much as told that he is not on the hot seat no matter what the outcome this year.

Posted by truetiger1998 on August 12, 2008 at 07:58 PM EDT #

I think you missed the whole point of this blog trutuger1998.

Posted by tigerwes1 on August 12, 2008 at 08:16 PM EDT #

It's really great to hear how much progress your son has made. As far as Coach Bowden goes I think we are very fortunate to still have him. He could have easily took the job at Arkansas and left us scratching our heads. I think it has done great for recruiting to have a coach with such a long tenure at the school. I don't why enough fans don't appreciate bowden for all he has done, just look at the west endzone and upgrading the facilities. When he does win a championship and HE WILL. Maybe more fans will appreciate him for what he really is - A GREAT COACH!!

Posted by tigeryan on August 12, 2008 at 08:28 PM EDT #

Ditto, truetiger.

We got the point, tigerwes1, we're just sick of hearing what a great man TB is. I've NEVER questioned his character, but his coaching still leaves a great deal to be proven. He hasn't come close to living up to his expectations when hired.

Hatfield was a bad fit, but I am positive his track record as a Christian and positive deeds for other people is every bit as good, if not better, than Tommy Bowden's. Danny Ford didn't fit this "fine Christian" image that makes me want to puke sometimes from all the evangelicals on TNet, but Ford is a wonderful person and still loved by his players, former assistants, and those that know him. There are MANY truly wonderful coaches out there that are caring generous people that run their programs the right way and are people of character & integrity. In fact, the overwhelming majority of coaches are good people with character & integrity.

Posted by flatiger66 on August 12, 2008 at 08:39 PM EDT #

Yet the loud minority here on TNet see TB as some kind of saint that mere mortal coaches can't come close to achieving - YES minority, because few I talk to OFF of TNet feel this way, and frankly, neither do the majority on TNet, but the LOUD evangelical minority on TNet crucify anyone that doesn't tow the "TB as saint" party line.

So please stop with this TB sainthood. It gets old. TB is paid to WIN! That's it. Everything else he does is expected and done by most other coaches. If TB was winning big like the expectation when he was hired we wouldn't be talking about this BS all the time, but because TB has NOT lived up to expectations, the evangelicals that love him have to paint him as this person of high character beyond reproach.

Posted by flatiger66 on August 12, 2008 at 08:41 PM EDT #

TB is NOT Clemson football. He is a coach. Period! And right now he is being over paid and NOT meeting expectations!! He better start soon or it will be time to show him the door!

Richrod is a SOB, but he is a winner! TB would NEVER have Michigan, Bama, or other top programs begging for his services, but we should kiss his arse and make him a saint? Hardly! Honestly, the fans of very few major football programs right now would be pleased if TB became their coach. Start winning TB, or move on!!

Posted by flatiger66 on August 12, 2008 at 08:41 PM EDT #

I think you missed the whole point of this blog trutuger1998.

Posted by tigerwes1 on August 12, 2008 at 08:46 PM EDT #

Tell us how you really feel FlaTiger. Geez.

Posted by TigerSig on August 12, 2008 at 08:50 PM EDT #

Reading comprehension is a skill that must not have been taught back in the 60's...

Posted by tomerafan on August 12, 2008 at 09:16 PM EDT #

Thanks Mickey, by far my favorite blog you have written. I love getting updates on ryan and hearing about the support from clemson nation.

we all struggle with priorities and perspectives. facts are we are all human and make mistakes. no doubt TB has made some mistakes on and off of the field, but i'd just assume never winning another football game and have a high quality coach than infinate championships with a coach who's lost respect on/off the field. to have both respect and wins would be ultimate, and i think we are close.

thoughts and prayers continue toward your family. thanks again for the post, GO TIGERS

Posted by Paws-itive Tiger on August 12, 2008 at 09:49 PM EDT #

No, we get it. Someone questioned TB's character and now Mickey and the evangelical TB lovers come running to TB's defense. We get it. He's a great guy. Honestly, who cares if some bitter jealous Gamecock questions TB's character? That douche K-Mac today on the radio was spouting off that McDaniel's GF was "paid off" to let McDaniel enter PTI so he could play. Most coaches have great character. TB is not some anomaly and Clemson could do better, much better! Geez I'm so sick of hearing how great TB is! He's paid to WIN and he's NOT getting it done. That's the bottom line! This isn't church or pre-school, this is big time college football. Start earning that big salary or get someone who will. And again, you're fooling yourself if you think there aren't other high character coaches that could step in with our talent and get better results immediately. There are!!

Posted by indigo_tiger on August 12, 2008 at 09:55 PM EDT #

First of all, I'm sick and tired of people using the term "evangelical" like it's some kinda smear. I serve the one and only TRUE GOD and I will stand up for Him and His followers till the death. It's not just here but in society as a whole where this type of thing is becoming way too common place. So for all of you who want to throw off on us evangelicals, you should know we will not just lie down.

Posted by cdr4tigers on August 13, 2008 at 04:30 AM EDT #

Now, as for the subject of the blog; it's Mickey's freakin blog!! If he wants to use it to defend someone who is a true friend and who he believes is the right coach for Clemson, then that's his right. Also, nowhere in the article does he even hint that he is saying that Bowden is or is not getting the job done in the w/l column. In fact, he states that coaches expect to and should be criticized when it is just and earned. He is simply stating his trust and faith that TB will make the right decision with DMc based solidly on that fact that he has a great track record in these types of cases. He doesn't say he's "infallible"
or that he's the ultimate coach. He also doesn't say that there aren't other high character coaches out there. In fact, if you'd heard his show Tuesday morning you would've heard proof otherwise.

Posted by cdr4tigers on August 13, 2008 at 04:31 AM EDT #

And, BTW, you can't say whose in the minority and who isn't. Most of the people I talk to seem to think like I do to. I'd say that's true of most posters on TNet. And since most posters seem to support Bowden, well, I think you can see where I'm going, right? Furthermore, if you are really that tired of hearing about what a great guy TB is then maybe you should try the gamecock board. If ya hang around here, you will probably just get more frustrated.

Posted by cdr4tigers on August 13, 2008 at 04:32 AM EDT #

WOW... people really can't read!!!!

Nice post Mickey. TB already is a winner. He just doesn't have the NC yet.

Posted by alabamatiger on August 13, 2008 at 05:06 AM EDT #

Evangelical isn't a smear, but it is an accurate adjective for overly zealous Christians. And for the record, the TB love fest is mostly here on TNet by a minority of posters, because anytime someone even remotely, and objectively, questions TB's coaching ability they are attached by the TB lovers, who are in fact primarily evangelicals that tout his "good Christian character, graduation rate, blah blah blah" versus admitting he's NOT winning like he should be! BC, GaTech, & VT OWN TB, yet you can count on one hand the number of recruiting classes those 3 have had that out ranked any of TB's. He does in fact under achieve and get less from his players than other coaches in the ACC.

Posted by indigo_tiger on August 13, 2008 at 06:16 AM EDT #

Additionally, CU was NOT in shambles when he got here. Otherwise he couldn't of gone 9-3 his 2nd year!! I admit he is a great guy, but he's not Jesus or unique or significantly more special than dozens of other coaches. He's at best the 5th best coach in the ACC. If it were not for CU being in the bible belt and all the evangelicals TB would probably be gone by now, and he'd certainly be on the hot seat to win more, which he most assuredly will be on the clock if he doesn't win the Atlantic Div. this year!!

Posted by flatiger66 on August 13, 2008 at 06:17 AM EDT #

And for all you people using the asinine argument that TB does not underachieve because of the pre-season predictions, please wake up and get off the drugs! Voters pic based on EXPECTATIONS, not potential. Most experts feel CU could be a dominant college football program, but the expectation is for continued underachieving. Therefore, until TB shows he can meet potential and expectations, they will continue to doubt him. TB hasn't proved a darn thing yet. He hasn't come close to meeting the incentives in his original contract nor the expectations.

Posted by flatiger66 on August 13, 2008 at 06:19 AM EDT #

The ONLY reason the ACC media voted CU the favorite this year is because on paper in this weak conference with our weak schedule there was no way NOT to vote for us. But it has been well documented that despite the near unanimous voting we will win the AC this year, it was almost near unanimous that those same voters don't actually expect us to even win our division. Why? Simple - tommy Bowden. The sooner you people accept that cold hard truth the sooner you'll be living in the same reality that most CU supporters and everyone outside the CU family are living in!

Posted by flatiger66 on August 13, 2008 at 06:20 AM EDT #

tigeryan said he is a GREAT COACH??? most "great coaches" have something to back that up!!! what does he have ? top 10 recruiting classes!! he may be a nice guy but they all finish last!! never done better than 5-3 in the "weak" acc!! time to put up or shut up!!!holla if you here me!!!!!

Posted by MyBoyWilly on August 13, 2008 at 06:36 AM EDT #

In closing, re: evangelicals - the only people supporting the dehumanizing treatment of Terry Shivo by keeping her on life support after 15 years against expert medical opinions were evangelicals. Evangelicals live in a fantasy land that even average Christians don't recognize.

Posted by flatiger66 on August 13, 2008 at 06:36 AM EDT #

This board is so full of Christian hypocrites it's beyond ludicrous! The same people posting prayer requests and supporting TB for every reason but why he's paid, and touting their christian faith, are the same people that flame & judge others and show intolerance for ANY dissenting opinions. The support the flag, tout their drinking and partying and tailgating prowess, and post & salivate over Katie and other hot and half nude pics posted. I could go on & on over the hypocritical behavior of you so called christians evangelicals on this board. Jesus himself said its not saying you are a believer and going to church that makes you a good christian, but how you think, act, and carry yourself. Sadly few of you live by the words you use to judge and chastise others! How dare ANY of you judge me or anyone else that exercises our right to an opinion other than yours!! "judge not lest ye be judged" Matthew 7.

Posted by flatiger66 on August 13, 2008 at 06:36 AM EDT #

geez.....can't we keep religion and sports separate? Contrary to what some of you conspiracy nuts think, Bowden is not getting paid because he goes to church every sunday.

Posted by MyBloodRunnethOrange on August 13, 2008 at 06:43 AM EDT #

geez.....can't we keep religion and sports separate? Contrary to what some of you conspiracy nuts think, Bowden is not getting paid because he goes to church every sunday.

Posted by MyBloodRunnethOrange on August 13, 2008 at 06:44 AM EDT #

MBRO,
You're wasting your time and bandwidth talking to these guys.
Fact is Clemson Football isn't a sport, it is a BUSINESS. And, based on ticket sales and IPTAY giving, business is GOOD.
TDP is in charge and his and the University President's opinion of TB is all that matters. TDP made his statement in the contract renegotiation last year.
This string of messages is just so much hot air (mine included).

Posted by Walhalla Wildman on August 13, 2008 at 09:06 AM EDT #

I dont think anybody has ever questioned Bowden's character, he's a great person, just not so much a great coach.

Posted by drock4484 on August 13, 2008 at 09:40 AM EDT #

The only thing this thread proves is that the rank and file Clemson fan base is split over CTB. The establishment, from the big donors to the powerful administrators to the "gurus" like Mickey and Cris Ard are all in his corner.

Again, I like CTB. I think a lot of things are going well. We have had massive facility upgrades under his watch and cooresponding recruiting improvements year after year. All great.

What concerns me is the seemingly open ended and changing expectations of what he needs to accomplish in the W/L column.

Have we improved since the Hatfield and West debacles? Yes.

Are we where we need to be yet? Depends. Some of you think yes, I and many others think no.

Is CTB the one to get us where we need to be? I don't know, but I also don't want an open ended, and decisions that are not results based.

Posted by truetiger1998 on August 13, 2008 at 09:50 AM EDT #

What a sad commentary by many people who claim to be part of the "Clemson Family." Football is a part of life. A sport. Not life or death... not war. Character is an important part of that equation. Bowden has never claimed to be the Pope. The fact that he has personal integrity and faith seems to upset those who don't. Too damn bad.

Posted by Airport4 on August 13, 2008 at 10:20 AM EDT #

One time I saw Tommy Bowden speak in tongues at church. It was weird because he had the voice of Bear Bryant, but the demeanor of Mike Ditka. I forget what he said because most of it sounded like jibberish, but when I asked him about it later, he said something about McDaniel, Jeb Bush, a letter opener, an Alaskan cruise ship, 3 grapefruits, and a sugar cube. I'm still trying to get clarification on the implications of his words.

Posted by Biochem 98 on August 13, 2008 at 10:44 AM EDT #

I am a long time reader of tigernet but this is the first time I have ever posted. First off, ALL people are hypocritical. We all have something that we portray one way and in reality it is the complete opposite. I don't think anywhere in this blog it said that TB was a saint or perfect. It seems a bit "hypocritical" to complain about how vocal "evangelicals" are about Christianity and go on about tolerance and then criticize a blog that was written about how someone has admiration and trust in the coach of Clemson University and his decision making. I am frustrated with
Bowden but I didn't see him drop a pass against BC. I didn't see him blow a coverage so that Mat Ryan could throw that TD.

Posted by jdwtiger on August 13, 2008 at 12:09 PM EDT #

So you want to get rid of him? Who could we get that would guarantee a better outcome? What if we trade a man who can build a long term successful program slowly (See Bobby Bowden, I bet West Virginia wishes they were more patient) for quick success (see Larry Coker and Miami, where is he?). Larry could win with someone elses players but he couldn't recruit. My brother in law was a starting tight end at Coastal Carolina (who by the way won 3 conference championships in his five years there) once told me something that I will never forget. He said: "Football is checkers not chess". It isn't that complicated if you have good players.

Posted by jdwtiger on August 13, 2008 at 12:11 PM EDT #

FSU won because they had better players, not because they had better play calling or coaching. All the reverses and complicated play calling we did with Rich Rod and Woody didn't matter. They were better! Coaches are given too much credit and too much grief about play calling. If it works, they are a genius! If it doesn't they are and idiot. The difference is execution by the players. Play calling is the most overrated aspect of football. If you have elite players you can win. Wake Forest wins off of solid players and gimmicky Play calling, but they will never be considered an elite program because they will never have elite players. They will always be a gimmick. We beat both teams in the acc championship game the year Wake forest won it.

Posted by jdwtiger on August 13, 2008 at 12:13 PM EDT #

I believe that all of the personal bashing, coaching or not, should stop. That in and of itself is "hypocritical". Criticize his coaching all you want but outside of his family and close friends, none of us know Tommy Bowden. I love Clemson and the worst thing that could happen is for its fans to be split. We need a ONE Clemson. Not one opinion, but a unified fan base that can be tolerant and stand together no matter what.

Posted by jdwtiger on August 13, 2008 at 12:13 PM EDT #

airport4, if that were our programs expectation then we should know that. we could be getting what we are getting from a results standpoint from a coach with a significantly smaller salary. we're being asked to pay more and more, but not being given a clear message of what the acceptable standards of performance are. TB had yet to meet a single incentive on his original contract, which were all performance based, yet he was given an even bigger contract. this is bothersome for most hard working donors.

truetiger, you absolutely cannot know where all big donors opinions on TB reside. i know for a fact many big donors are far from happy. anyone that thinks TB can survive another year or two with the status qou is delusional.

MBRO, it's the evangelicals and their blind faith & support of TB regardless of on the field results that make religion a part of the discussion.

Posted by flatiger66 on August 13, 2008 at 12:13 PM EDT #

flatiger, you seem to be a hard-headed idiot with some issues... lumping a bunch of people into a category, then mislabling it is pretty stupid. Look up the term evangelical, perhaps you can study the actual meaning and quit bashing a huge and diverse set of people.

Posted by tigerP94 on August 13, 2008 at 12:22 PM EDT #

jdwtiger, you are the poster child for what i'm talking about. quotes like "who would we get better" and "coaches don't make plays" are just stupid. That's how losers and settlers think. CU is not a revolving door. TB has the 3rd longest tenure in the ACC but the least results. If TB were fired TDPs phone would be ringing off the hook with well qualified candidates. Some people can recruit but can't coach, Red Parker & TB are perfect examples. Other coaches in the ACC get FAR more ut of less talent. Everyone but the TB lovers see this because it is painfully obvious! If talent alone won games how are we owned by GT BC & VT? we consistently our recruit them. How do we lose to Wake & Duke? It's called POOR COACHING!! And NO ONE is bashing TB as a person, we're just tired of people using the "great guy" excuse to let him off the hook for his crappy coaching!!

Posted by flatiger66 on August 13, 2008 at 12:23 PM EDT #

tigerp94, i'm not the only one that holds this opinion, and if you observe who posts what on tnet long enough you'll see the pattern. it's very clear. maybe you are the stupid one if you can't see the obvious. also, why am i a hard headed idiot for holding my own opinions? that's my right, or are you a communist? oh wait, must be an evangelical, which makes you more like a Fascist. my opinions, by the way, are far more prevalent and popular than some on tnet would like us to believe. i know because there are many on tnet that feel this way but gave up the fight long ago, as well as tiger fans, alumni, and iptay members that i talk to daily that are every bit as frustrated as i am.

Posted by flatiger66 on August 13, 2008 at 12:31 PM EDT #

here's a question for the TB lovers and i'll drop this. if we don't win the acc championship this year or next. and it's very possible we'll be better next year than this year. and unc or wake were to actually win it this year or next, both with less talent and newer coahes. are you still a TB supporter? Do we keep him? If we do, the great recruiting will stop. you can't fool these kids but so long. sooner or later you gotta win the championship or people will see thru this staff's BS. as down as the acc is right now and with all our talent and an easy schedule this yr & next, does TB have to win the acc to keep his job? if you answer NO then it just proves you love TB more than CU football & results on the field. TB is NOT CU football. He is not bigger than the program. and i tell you what, i guarantee TDP will fire TB if he doesn't show some serious results by january 5th 2010!!!! the avg CU fan will demand it. count on it.

Posted by flatiger66 on August 13, 2008 at 12:44 PM EDT #

There's a special place in hell for some of you. Enjoy your "free" time on earth.

Posted by OldTiger05 on August 13, 2008 at 12:53 PM EDT #

OldTiger05, you Christian compassion is admirable. God bless you brother!

Posted by Biochem 98 on August 13, 2008 at 01:39 PM EDT #

flatiger66, first of all I am not a Tommy Bowden lover. Secondly name that list of coaches that are better and are waiting in line. We thought that Tommy was sure bet when we hired him. I never said that Clemson was a revolving door, I just don't want it to become one. Also, who do you think does the direct coaching of players? Not TB. If you don't win with talent then why didn't we win NC and ACC championships when we had Rich Rod? He did it at West Virginia. I just love it when people talk about being tolerent and then call people stupid for having an opinion.

Posted by jdwtiger on August 13, 2008 at 03:08 PM EDT #

Also, VT has had more talent than we have had for over a decade. winning recruiting battle on Rivals doesn't guarantee good players. We have surpassed them now but to say that we have had better talent in the last decade is not correct. BC is a flip of a coin. those games couldn't have been any closer. If AK catches that pass then you don't have anything to talk about. I just don't see where that is due to coaching. GT doesn't own us. It is a tight series over the last several years.

Posted by jdwtiger on August 13, 2008 at 03:15 PM EDT #

jdwtiger, you are stupid, because it's me and the few with the courage to voice a different opinion on TNet that are attacked. We aren't doing the attacking, we are fighting for our right to voice our opinion over the loud minority that tries to run the board. RE: RichRod was here what, 2 years, and it was during that 2nd year that CU did its best under TB. Wake up asshat. TB is the head coach. The buck and responsibility falls on him. He hires & fires the staff, runs the program, motivates, or lack thereof the team, etc. I love how you TB supporters try to muddy the water with nonsense when the basic facts of TB and our lack of success relative to other ACC teams and coaches is pointed out. There is a reason the media and non-CU people think we are under achievers and fail to reach our potential. The fact that so many folks like you on TNet fail to see the truth repeatedly slapping you in the face is frankly sad & pathetic!

Posted by indigo_tiger on August 13, 2008 at 03:21 PM EDT #

Frank beamer and Bobby Bowden (the two with longer tenures)had lower winning percentages than TB at the same point in their career. Both were either run out or were almost run out of the Univ.

Posted by jdwtiger on August 13, 2008 at 03:24 PM EDT #

You aren't attacking yet you call people names who have never said a cross word to you and you don't even know? I have to question that statement.

Posted by jdwtiger on August 13, 2008 at 03:28 PM EDT #

jdwtiger,jesus you are an idiot!! Excuses, excuses, excuses! I'm so sick & tired of you people constantly making excuses for TB not getting it done. It's ALWAYS someone else's fault. Do you people raise your children to pawn responsibility off on others and constantly side step responsibility with lame excuses? I love how when we have low rated recruiting classes yall say stars & rankings don't matter, but the past two years brag about our stars & rankings. You LOVE the media when they write good things, but ridicule them when they write bad. God what flip flopin hypocrites! FACT: BC, VT, & GT OWN TB! Yet BC has NEVER out recruited CU, and GT & VT combined in 9 years have rarely if ever had higher ranked classes. Yet they own TB. why? BETTER COACHING! wake up!!

Posted by flatiger66 on August 13, 2008 at 03:29 PM EDT #

Further that team that so called "did its best" under Rich Rod was demolished by FSU and VT because they had more talent. Not because Rich Rod couldn't coach as well.

Posted by jdwtiger on August 13, 2008 at 03:31 PM EDT #

I think you need some medicine and a chill pill. I can't believe that you write the things you write and talk about being attacked. Maybe you bring it on yourself? You need to get a life.

Posted by jdwtiger on August 13, 2008 at 03:34 PM EDT #

I think you need some medicine and a chill pill. I can't believe that you write the things you write and talk about being attacked. Maybe you bring it on yourself? You need to get a life.

Posted by jdwtiger on August 13, 2008 at 03:36 PM EDT #

BB & Beamer are two of the top coaches in college football. They are the EXCEPTIONS to the rule. To even compare TB to them is insulting! BB had a lot of success early on and to compare the job Beamer has done at VT to CU is asinine!! You can't even compare CU to VT before Beamer. And he's done it with less talent. If a coach is going to be successful he almost always does it in less time. Beamer showed signs early on of where things were going. The only thing TB has done consistently is be inconsistent and have pathetic special teams and predictable collapses! trust me, I pray I'm wrong, but we SUCK under TB when the favorite. Don't be surprised if TB isn't playing in the ACCCG! And there will be NO excuses! Wake, with NO talent and a 3rd string freshman QB won the ACC and stomped CU. Why? GREAT COACHING!!!! I'm done arguing with you. People like you are simply too stupid to see the truth, too arrogant to admit you are wrong, or just plain delusional!

Posted by flatiger66 on August 13, 2008 at 03:40 PM EDT #

I'll tell you one undeniable fact. To win big it takes talent & coaching. And on the college level, great coaching with average talent will always be consistently better than great talent with average coaching! For proof, look at Wake & BC versus FSU right now! Bobby Bowden lost the great staff he had and the worm turned at FSU and they still haven't gotten it turned around yet they always have top recruiting classes. BC & wake NEVER have top recruiting classes, nor does VT, but look at their success, esp compared to CU under TB. How many ways does the truth have to be put before your eyes to see it? How much longer does TB have in your opinion? If wake or UNC win the ACC before us will you see the light? If we don't win the ACC the next two years when it's gift wraped for us, will you still support TB?

Posted by flatiger66 on August 13, 2008 at 03:47 PM EDT #

Here are the facts: Rivals recruiting rankings from 2002 to 2007. Looks like they have out recruited us a few times:
2002: CU-22 BC-43 VT-45 GT-63
2003: CU-68 BC-24 VT-27 GT-50
2004: CU-53 BC-24 VT-41 GT-56
2005: CU-17 BC-49 VT-14 GT-62
2006: CU-15 BC-37 VT-32 GT-57
2007: CU-16 BC-46 VT-29 GT-18
...but I guess those "facts" are stupid too because they don't prove your point!

Posted by jdwtiger on August 13, 2008 at 03:58 PM EDT #

Bobby Bowden did lose a great staff and why do you think that hurt FSU. Not because the others can't coach but because their recruiting evaluation (not ranking) has been poor. Bobby said that himself. You may know more about his program than he does but I doubt it.

Posted by jdwtiger on August 13, 2008 at 04:03 PM EDT #

I am arrogant yet you are calling names and blasting me for having a different opinion. Ever think you might be wrong? I guess everyone who doesn't agree with you is stupid and arrogant.

Posted by jdwtiger on August 13, 2008 at 04:08 PM EDT #

I am arrogant yet you are calling names and blasting me for having a different opinion. Ever think you might be wrong? I guess everyone who doesn't agree with you is stupid and arrogant.

Posted by jdwtiger on August 13, 2008 at 04:12 PM EDT #

What is the most important goal for any college football coach? In my opinion the MOST IMPORTANT goal should not be winning. It may be the most important to the fans, but not to the University or the players themselves. The MOST IMPORTANT goal should be a 100% graduation rate. While everyone knows that's not possible, it HAS increased since Bowden accepted the position. I just think it would be irresponsible for any coach or administration to put winning above all else. Look at SCU! They put beating us (not winning) above all else every year. Look at the caliber of individual that is recruited or is attracted to that institution. I, for one, would hate to see Clemson stoop to that level.

Posted by tigercowboy on August 13, 2008 at 04:20 PM EDT #

I am not saying that Bowden is the man for this university and I am definitely not in love with TB. I just don't think it is wise to make a change for change sake. If there is a standout coach that is available and willing to come to Clemson if TB doesn't get done, I am all for it. I just haven't seen any proof that there is one and I do see our record becoming consistently higher and our recruiting and academics doing the same. We will see.

Posted by jdwtiger on August 13, 2008 at 04:26 PM EDT #

Sad to see that there are still people who put a man's record above his soul. Wow.

Posted by RU4GOD2 on August 13, 2008 at 08:53 PM EDT #

see thats the incredibly stupid black & white absolutes you evangelicals see the world in. no one is saying football counts more than a man's soul, but he is a football coach. football is a business. if TB were a corporate ceo rather than football ceo he would of been fired yrs ago. the sad truth is, wake forest and other schools now make football a bigger priority than clemson. clemson wouldn't even be on the map if it were not for danny ford and football.

Posted by flatiger66 on August 13, 2008 at 10:08 PM EDT #

and jdwtiger, please shut up, you get dumber with every post. fsu's evaluation dropped but yet recruiting services still think they have top classes but they really don't? what? how stupid are you. and you started the flaming and name calling, not me! and your recruiting numbers do prove my point, clemson averages a better recruiting class under Tb but yet GT BC & VT flat out OWN TB. they get far more out of their talent and every objective recruiting source has written about it, but hey, you know more about recruiting than they do, right? i'm getting dumber just responding to you blind idiots!

Posted by flatiger66 on August 13, 2008 at 10:09 PM EDT #

its funny how you people were OK with the firing of Hatfield & West, men equally as christian & of equal character, but would defend TB to the death regardless of his success on the football field, which is in fact his # one priority, which is obvious if you look at his contract and incentives. they are ALL based on on the field performance yet that is the weakest area of TB's tenure!!! and funny how people question if someone better could come here. OMG! it's the "keep Shyatt" syndrome all over again. "We can't do any better and he's a good man so we'd be stupid to fire him". what a crock!

Posted by indigo_tiger on August 13, 2008 at 10:15 PM EDT #

flatiger and indigo, how about this? If TB doesn't win the ACC in the next two years, I'll come on here and say that I was wrong about him being the man to get it done and that it's time to move on. If he does win the ACC in the next two years, you guys come on here and admit you were wrong.

Deal?

Posted by ManOfOrange on August 14, 2008 at 12:26 AM EDT #

Name someone that is absolutely better than TB that is available to come and I will shut-up. I never once called you a name. Having a conversation with you is like talking to a 3 year old. "Shut-up, Stupid, idiot"

Posted by jdwtiger on August 14, 2008 at 07:20 AM EDT #

Ask anyone who knows anything about talent evaluation if FSU has the same quality personell that they had in the 90's. You guys are making a bunch of blanket statements about me and other people that you don't even know.

Posted by jdwtiger on August 14, 2008 at 07:23 AM EDT #

Anyway, can't we just all get along. My little sister moves to Clemson tomorrow. She is a freshman and she is very excited!

Posted by jdwtiger on August 14, 2008 at 07:27 AM EDT #

Also flatiger66, going by your notion that we have "averaged" better classes.
CU average ranking over last 6 years:31.8
VT average ranking:31.3
BC average ranking:37.2

According to your logic we are all about the same and VT has a better average ranking. Also, our average recruiting ranking is about where our average ranking on the field has been. I know, I know: "shut-up, your dumb, idiot, that makes no sense..."

Posted by jdwtiger on August 14, 2008 at 07:39 AM EDT #

Let me clear this whole issue on evangelicals up really quickly.

e·van·gel·i·cal (?'v?n-j?l'?-k?l,
adj.

1. Of, relating to, or in accordance with the Christian gospel, especially one of the four gospel books of the New Testament.
2. Of, relating to, or being a Protestant church that founds its teaching on the gospel.
3. Of, relating to, or being a Christian church believing in the sole authority and inerrancy of the Bible, in salvation only through regeneration, and in a spiritually transformed personal life.

Posted by cdr4tigers on August 15, 2008 at 01:02 AM EDT #

Now, that's a far cry from the definition above of "an accurate adjective for overly zealous Christians". So I really hope to not see the term used any more in these discussions.

In closing I want to note that it is crystal clear to anyone that reads these posts who the childish, desperate-
to-be-heard ones are and who the ones that are calmly confident in what they are saying are. That, in and of itself, does all the talking that is needed.

Posted by cdr4tigers on August 15, 2008 at 01:10 AM EDT #